Religion

[Logan]

Lizzy, I'm sorry. Take it from a recovering Catholic they're not the path. I once was an alter boy and I began to question the church with simple logic.
The Bible is God's word. Why do we read from a misselette?
The Bible says call no man teacher, leader, father or Rabbi. Why do we call the priest Father?
The Bible says to confess your sins before God. Why do we tell this priest our dirty laundry?
The Bible says do not worship idols. Why am I praying to a statue of Mary?
The Bible says the dead are conscious of nothing. Why am I praying to dead saints?
Please understand I have no intention of knocking you, the faith of a mustard seed is better than none. Rather ask God for insight and read in plain modern English the Bible.
I have disagreed not to belittle but to persuade.

[sutherncmfrt]

Dangnabit, just when I thought the world was full of robots ya'll go and show you use that thing between your ears.

[wizardborn1]

"The Gnostic would ask of us, Are you also the victim of blindness, not knowing that God is a jealous God, making your heart thick, your mind blind, so that you will not understand? Don't you realize that God himself is not all that smart, not even knowing where Adam is? What's wrong with the eyes of your mind being opened? What's wrong with Adam becoming like "one of us," like a divine being, godlike? What's so wrong with eating from the tree of life and living forever? Are you really against the immortality of the soul? What kind of God is this, after all--"a malicious grudger"? A malevolent God like that would surely explain how the world he created is so terrible.

Is that really the last word? Isn't there some hope somewhere? Maybe high above the heavens? Some really decent God that the Hebrew scriptures didn't know about, a hidden God? Yet a hidden God who did reveal himself, on rare occasions to persons who resisted the evil God, and hence got punished by the evil God, and got a terrible reputation in the scriptures dictated by the evil God? Such as Cain?

The Gnostice might well have said: We who are in the know: We think for ourselves and see through the sham, have been enlightened by the hidden God far above, who is free from all this impossible system under which the world suffers. This hidden God frees us, he does not enslave us! "

[there6768]

Most of what everyone is saying about endtimes is what comes from secular books. Hal Lindsey was one that made it so popular with his "Late Great Planet Earth". His words have been taught as scripture in most churches, even today. He even was on the 1988 Rapture date. He was wrong about that, but he is still considered a great prophet.

The New Testament writers all thought that the Lord would return in their day. 101 verses through out the New Testament indicate it. Were they wrong? If so where was the inspiration? Did God mislead them? There is no scripture anywhere that says the so call rapture would come before the so call tribulation period. None. That idea did not exsist till around 1830.

Question? Who were the writers writing to? Not to someone 2000+ years down the road. If you want to understand Revelation a little better. Study the history of what happen to Israel from 67 AD to 70 Ad.

As for the 144 thousand Jews. They were the first fruits. Now how can any Jew today be first when the first early christians were Jews, or the "first fruits". Read Romans.

Jesus came to abolish the sacrifice in the temple, by being one Himself. God is not going set up that old type of scrifice to in a "new temple." We are the new temple.

With the exception of a "new heaven and a new earth" the book of Revelation is history, the "antichrist was in Johns day. Read John 1,2 &3. That word is not in the last book. Trust and read the Bible for yourself, not someones interpretation of it, unless you have check it out.

[knuckledragger]

A karma for Druid. I suppose some faith is better than no faith. I have said many, many, times that to me, the Bible and the Church is full of more bullsh*t than a stock yard. My personnal feelings are: God does NOT care what you wear to Church, God does NOT care if you put money in the preachers pocket (Oops, I meant collection plate), God does NOT care if you even go to Church! What God does care about is how we treat eachother(hence having a voice that tells us when were doing wrong for most of us, those that don't, well, I guess they're here to make things fun). And last, but not least, our loyalty to God himself. I have said before that I think God tends to stay out of our affairs. That is not to say he doesnt interfer at times, but for the most part lets us run/ruin our course.

[Tazz]

I never condemned anyone to hell. I only wish I had that kind of power. ;D

As I said, it doesn't matter to me what anyone else thinks about it. I believe what I believe and that's it for me.

[lizzy]

druidlogan,
In replies to your last post to me, sorry I just saw it.
While my reply is long, it is worth reading. Seeing the misconceptions people have about my Catholic faith, always makes me smile. I love to be able to correct their misconceptions of my faith,please feel free to ask away. Before I answer these question, I’d like to quote a wonderful man of God, the late Archbishop Fulton Sheen, who said, “There are not one hundred people in this world who hate Catholicism, but there are millions who hate what they mistakenly believe Catholicism to be.”
No need to try and persuade me , I know my belief is for me.

You say the bible is the worked of god, so why do we read it from a misselette, well I do not, my church does not use missleteets, we listen to the word or use our own bible.

Doesn't the Bible say "Call no man Father"? Why call a priest "Father"?

In Matthew 23:1-12 the Bible does say that we are to call no man father. It also says in the very same verse that we are to call no man teacher either, but for some reason it never seems to bother anyone that we go through years of school calling others teacher.

If we were to really take this verse literally, then we’d never use the f-word (that’s father) in reference to our own dad, but there’s nothing gained by swapping out synonyms (Jesus didn’t have just a personal disliking toward the word “father”); so we need to look deeper to see what is really going on here.

In these verses, Jesus is speaking figuratively about where truth and authority come from. And his teaching is given within the context of criticizing the Scribes and Pharisees for their hypocrisy as teachers and leaders of the Jewish people.
Jesus is speaking figuratively about where truth and authority come from.
You see, the Scribes and Pharisees were all about dangling their power and authority over their followers; they loved having these titles of “father” and “teacher” which set them apart as superior to the rest of the Jews. But Jesus is reminding us that truth and authority comes ultimately from God alone and so we must not seek to bring glory upon ourselves by these titles of “father” and “teacher”, but rather to recognize God’s glory as the one who teaches us how to live (as a teacher) and sustains our life (as a father).

And so, when we call our priests “father” we are simply recognizing the fact that, through the authority given by Christ, they share in God’s work of giving and sustaining our spiritual life. Similarly, teachers share in God’s work of leading us into truth and understanding.

Why do we have to go to a priest to be forgiven?

"Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained." -John 20:21-23
Why do we "have to go to a priest" to be forgiven? Why can't we just think about what we did wrong and say sorry in our minds, by ourselves? Why would God want to humble us so badly, by making us share our faults and sins with another person?

Did you see how Jesus gives His apostles, the first members of Christ's priesthood, the power to forgive OR NOT to forgive? This IS VITAL for understanding Reconciliation.
Say that you work at a gas station and a car pulls in for directions. Now when the driver gets out, how do you know what directions to give them? How do you know whether to tell them that they're on the right road or the wrong road? Do you just guess based on looking at them, or do you LISTEN to them first?
It's the same way with a Priest during the Sacrament of Reconciliation. By necessity, a priest can only know whether to forgive sins or hold them bound ONCE HE HAS HEARD THEM. Hearing the sins is essential.
Also, when people say that a priest can't forgive sins, or that they don't need to go to a priest, we need to know how to explain the role of the priest in confession. During the sacrament, we aren't confessing our sins to the priest, but to God. The priest is acting "in persona cristi capitis", which is a big way of saying, "in the person of Christ." At that moment in confession, through the power of the priest's ordination, the priest is standing in the physical place of Jesus. That's why the priest says, "I absolve you" and not, "Jesus absolves you." It's the same during the consecration at Mass when the priest says, "This is MY body," not "This is His body" or "this is Jesus' body."
Reconciliation is offered at about 90% of all Catholic Churches on Saturday afternoon.
Just an idea.

SALVATION GIVEN
"Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained." -John 20:21-23

"Forgiveness is always free, but that doesn't mean that confession is always easy."

Do Catholics worship statues?

This is one of the most common misconceptions about the Catholic faith. Many well-intentioned, God-loving Christians of various denominations have heard this mistruth from trusted but ignorant teachers over the years, or have read it in books that claim to “expose” what they believe to be the Catholic faith. Unfortunately, as with most misconceptions, these conclusions are drawn with little or no true understanding of the faith or of the practice, or the purpose in question.


So, is worshipping a statue wrong? Yes. The Roman Catholic Church teaches that it is wrong, in line with the Sacred Scriptures as it states in Exodus 20:4-5, “You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them”.
You see, an image is not an idol. There is a difference.
That being said…

There are several places in the Bible where God commissions statues and images for religious usage:
• Exodus 25:10-22
• 1 Kings 6:23; 7:13-51
• Numbers 21:6-9
• Judges 17:1-6




Is God sending Two Different Messages?

Not necessarily…keep reading.

God ordered His children to construct these statues and images, but He did not intend for His children to worship them. God was using the images to help them to recall situations, to see places as holy and set apart, and to help them to open their minds and hearts and turn them back to God.

You see, an image is not an idol. There is a difference.

“An image is simply a spiritual ‘visual aid’ that is used by the faithful to increase their spirit of prayerfulness and devotion to God. An idol, on the other hand, is an image that is worshipped by the unfaithful in place of the one true God (i.e., the ‘golden calf’ described in Ex. 32:7-8).”

In the Old Testament, images of God were forbidden because folks had not yet seen God in human form. In the New Testament, God HAS taken on human form…an image that we can see.

“He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God…” – Colossians 1:15

“For in Jesus dwells the whole fullness of the Deity, bodily…” – Colossians 2:9

“What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we looked upon and touched with our hands concerns the Word of life – for the life was made visible…” – 1 John 1:1-2


When we profess that Jesus Christ is Lord, we must remember that we are professing the Incarnation…that is, that God became flesh…flesh in human form, Who we could see, smell, hear, touch and (through the Eucharist) taste!

When we look upon a statue as we meditate in prayer to God, our senses are illuminated. We are not worshipping the wood, plaster, plastic or paint. The image, though, appeals to our sense of sight, aiding in our visualization and helping us to focus on the pure, consistent and holy life lived by that saint…like the Blessed Virgin Mary, for instance.

Here’s a few more things to keep in mind:
• Stained glass windows with images can work in the same way…but most people don’t seem to have a problem with those, because “they’re just pretty”.
• Images were very important in the early times of our Church’s history, especially when most of the faithful were illiterate, and could not read the word of God on their own. The images helped them recall instances and situations in the Word that they had heard about, but could not read on their own.
• We put framed pictures of loved ones on mantles and walls of our homes, but that doesn’t mean that we worship them.
• If I hold my Bible during worship, and hold it close to my heart…am I worshipping the God who inspired and wrote it, or am I worshipping the leather, glue and paper?
• The weatherman uses a visual aid of maps when forecasting the weather, but couldn’t he just tell us the facts and read the temperatures?
• Is a Children’s picture Bible that includes animations and drawings throughout it, the worshipping of images? Those are images, too, just not 3-D.


Catholics may pray in front of a statue, but never to a statue…that would be idolatry.

Finally, consider these last two thoughts regarding what the early Christians did:
“Previously God, who has neither a body nor a face, absolutely could not be represented by an image. But now that he has made himself visible in the flesh and has lived with men, I can make an image of what I have seen of God…and contemplate the glory of the Lord, his face unveiled.” – St. John Damascene (749 AD)

“The early Church used statues and images as aids to devotion and as expressions of faith. One need only to visit the catacombs in Rome to see statues and frescoes representing no only Christ but also scenes from Scripture. When the Church emerged from the catacombs, it continued to decorate its houses of worship with statues, mosaics, frescoes, and oil paintings, all designed to increase a spirit of prayerfulness.”

So as you can see I do not adore or worship statues. I hope this long lenghty explaination helps your misconceptions some what. If not bring it on. I love my Catholic faith.
Peace be with you , and Let us keep praying for each other.
Peace

[wizardborn1]

Well said Lizzy ;D It took a while to read your reply but was well worth it. Peace to you also. I would like to hear more of this Eucharist. I have been doing some reading and have some questions but first could you explain this eucharist and what it means to you?

[lizzy]

The Church has always held that Christ is truly (or fully) present in the Eucharist. This means that when the priest says the words of institution (the Eucharistic Prayer), the bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ.

The Church says that once this change takes place, Christ is present Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity in the Eucharist (basically, this means that Christ is present in his entirety, we don’t have part of Jesus, we have the fullness of who Christ is present to us under the form of bread and wine).

Pretty awesome, huh? The second person of the Blessed Trinity, the Lord of all creation, chose to become present to us in the Holy Eucharist at every Mass, so that we could be nourished by his body and blood.

How does this bread and wine become Jesus body and Blood by transubstantiation.
Transubstantiation is the fancy name that the Church has for the change that takes place when the Bread and the Wine used at Mass become the Body and Blood of Christ. The term was used in this way at the Council of Trent (1545-1563). The Church had always held the belief that the bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ, but it wasn’t until the Council of Trent that the Church used this term to describe that change.

So, why did they use that word to describe this change? Well, if you break the word up, you’ve got trans–, which refers to a change (as in transformation); and you’ve got –substantiation which has substance at its root. And so, the word transubstantiation was a short way of saying that there is a transformation of the substance of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ.


What does Eucharist mean to me, it is without a doubt the best part of my day when I get to have eucharist. Christ is fully present and nourishes me. I am Blessed and Proud to be Catholic. Hope that helps with your question. Let's keep praying for each other.
Peace be with you .

[sutherncmfrt]

You are a very fervent believer and I applaud you for having faith in something that cannot be seen, touched, held or tasted. It only appeals to your heart and that is why it is called faith. And that is a precious thing. It was keeps man going from day to day. We have faith that our spouses love us and wouldn't hurt us. We have faith our children will grow up to be functioning adults even tho they try our faith. We have faith that the State will pay us every 2 weeks. But, religious faith condoms everyone not of that belief. Is that right? Because only that faith is the one and true religion. Is that right? Myself, I try not offend anybodys god, because we just do not know which is right. I have this recurring dream where everybody is dead and we are all standing around waiting. The big curtain goes up and a tiki idol is alone on the stage. We have all been wrong and we are all in deep doo-doo.

[gambler3365]

You are right about faith, you have to have faith in something, wether it is right or wrong. There is only one thing that is a fact in life, we are all going to die.

[lizzy]

Having faith alone is not good enough, Let us also remember it was not just Christ's faith in the Father's plan, but His work on the cross that brought salvation to us all.
Let's say I was sitting in a movie theater and someone yelled, "Fire!" If I believed that person, I would run out of the theater. If I did not believe them, I may continue to watch my movie. I cannot say, "I have faith in what that person said," and remain in my seat. Faith and actions go hand in hand; they cannot be separated.

Jesus makes this very point in Matthew 7:21 when He says, "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

People will often quote the Apostle Paul in discussing the importance of faith. He says, "For it is by grace that you are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so no one may boast." (Ephesian 2:8-9) Some people erroneously quote Paul to show that there is no need for works in salvation; however, Paul never says that. Reread the passage from Ephesians. Paul is quite clear that works alone do not save, but he says nothing about faith alone. As a matter of fact, the very next verse states, "For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them." (Ephesians 2:10)

There is an important distinction that needs to be made between faith alone and works alone. Catholics do not believe that works alone will earn someone a ticket to heaven. If we could earn salvation, then Christ died for no reason. (Galatians 2:21) Catholics also do not believe that faith alone will earn someone a ticket to heaven. According to James, "Faith without works is dead." (2:26)

"...he says nothing about faith alone."So what role do works play in faith? Perhaps we should ask the person sitting in the movie theater that is on fire if they can believe in something and not act. If we have faith in Christ, then we work. Let us stop separating faith and works as if Christ cares about one more than the other. Faith without works, is no good.
Lets keep praying for each other.
Peace to you

[gambler3365]

Thought I was in church there for a min.

[underthegun]

8-)Preach on Preacher ;D

[lizzy]

collection plate on its way to you , lol . Have a great night.
Peace