Religion

[knuckledragger]

Well, I started this thread like Steamroller had suggested. Let's see what kind of input we get. This and politic's are my two favorite subject's to discuss, in case anyone hasn't noticed. So, what do you all have to say about your belief's and/or moral's?

[Tazz]

What a great time of year to start this thread Knuckledragger. Brilliant!

I think people who live in this country should be able to worship as they choose. However, I absolutely hate all the attacks launched at Christians recently. Suddenly, our society is offended at EVERYTHING. What a bunch of garbage. And it really FRIES my butt that now perhaps "piggy banks" could be pulled from shelves because they are offensive to muslims. OMG!

Can you say "puke"?

[grouchymom]

Once when I was in Colorado for a week-end we attended a church that was wonderful. They didn't care what color you were, what you wore or what your sexual orientation was. They preached a wonderful message about love and brotherhood. Isn't that what being a Christian is? We spent the entire week-end with friends who attend this church. It was wonderful.

[Tazz]

It is refreshing to attend a church that is truly Bible based. Alot of churches today have seriously strayed from the Bible. Look at the churches who now are allowing gay staff. I don't really care who is gay and all that, but in church? Mainstream churches are also beginning to turn on Israel.

Can you say "end times"?

[knuckledragger]

In all honesty, I don't consider myself to be any particular "religion." I was rasied pretty much Catholic, and as I got older I decided that I didn't want any part of ANY organized religion. I felt I didn't need anyone TELLING me what I needed to believe in. And I still feel this way. I don't put much stock in the Bible because it has been tampered with so much, and it was written by man. Therefore, I feel it is inheirantly flawed. Kinda like, you have 100 people standing in line, you tell the first person a story, and by the time it get's to the last person it's been twisted, and your lucky if a grain of what you said come's back the same. Alot of time's I get into debate's with people who say, "It say's nothing shall be taken or added to this book." Oh really? What about the Apocrypha's? This word mean's missing or hidden in Greek. These are the book's that have been omitted from the Bible. Why were they omitted? Who know's. I'm inclined to believe that they are or were a threat to the "Church". There are 14 Apocrphal book's. I study religion alot. I don't know why, just love to read about it. We'll talk about this more later. I agree that this country is becoming less Christian tolerant. I think it is wrong that it is. I personally could care less about the Christian, Jewish, or Islamic religion's( if ya take the time to read about them, they all came from the same family and all believe in pretty much the same thing's.) by themselves. But I think it is wrong to single one out because the Muslim's are pitching a fit. By the way, has any Muslim's or Jew's really complained about Christian decoration's on Govt. building's? I know during Hanakkah, I see plenty of star of David's and Manurah's. Hell, if they want to raise the star and crescent moon during Islamic holiday's that's fine with me. But let's keep it fair. You are protected to have the right to practice any religion you see fit as long as you are not killing anybody doing it. What you are NOT protected from, is being offended.

[Tazz]

The Jews and the Muslims are Abrahams' offspring. Ishmael the eldest son, had an Arab mother. God told Abraham that his son would be the father of a great nation and that he would be against all men and all men would be against him. As I recall, the name Ishmael means "wild donkey" or some such name. The Muslim side of society today. Muhammad was a direct descendent of Ishmael.

Isaac the youngest was born to Arbraham and Sarah. God told Abraham that Isaac would be the father of a great nation as well. The results were the 12 tribes of Israel. Henceforth, the age long battles between the Arabs (Muslims) and the Jews.

Reading more through the Bible is very interesting.

[knuckledragger]

Tazz, I have to say im VERY impressed with your last post. A karma for you. Not many people take the time to figure out how some of these religion's were started. Another book I would recommend reading, is the Gnostic teaching's of Jesus. In there, are some book's that have been taken out of the new testament. I think you'll find reading the Apocrypha's and the Gnostic teaching's of Jesus interesting. It's kind of curious that if you read the Quran, that you'll find Jesus mentioned in it. I never understood the Crusade's. Everyone fighting for the "HOLY LAND." As I and yourself have pointed out, the big 3 religion's were all started by the same family. And if one take's the time to read everything they can about CHRISTIANITY, HEBREW, AND ISLAMIC religion's/sect's, one will come to the understanding they are all the same. I'm sure someone out there will use the archangel Gabriel's wrath to smite me for saying that, but it's true. To me, the Crusade's were nothing more than the Catholic church trying to expand it's empire and rich's. All of the killing's in the name of God has been a bunch of bullshit. Today we have the same problem with these Islamic fundamentalist's who kill the innocent in the name of God. No where in the Quran does it say to kill innocent people. Same thing with the old and new testament's in the Bible. Like I have said, read the book's of the Apocrypha (Enoch is my favorite) and you will find the King Jame's version to be full of hole's. It should be noted that not only was the Catholic church involed with omitting book's, but so was the Church of England, hence the "King Jame's" version. If going to church and reading the Bible make's you a better person, than by all mean's continue. I don't look down upon people for that, nor in what they believe. Here's a little factoid that will piss in someone's Wheaties. Christian's are really Jew's. Figure out how that is so and I'll give everyone a karma that answer's correctly. Ok, I need some feed back to continue the topic. I don't want to sound like a know it all asshole, because I know enough to know, I don't know it all. One last thing. One should find God on their own. It mean's more to God if you're sitting at the computer and find God than going to church and being told to find God.

[Ynot]

Knuckledragger has been nice enough to lend me his books on the subject. We have had a couple conversations on the subject of religion and he amazes me with his knowledge.

[Tazz]

Christians are "spiritual Israel". That is in the Bible as well but I cannot remember where exactly it is. King David was of the tribe of Judah and so was Jesus through his mother, Mary.

I beg to differ with you. The Muslims do not believe the same thing. Muslims believe that Muhammad was Gods' "chosen" one. Although they know Jesus was on the earth, they Think he was just a prophet and nothing else. The only reason the Muslims have not taken over the world is because the Sunni's and the Shiites cannot agree on anything. They haven't been able to become as one since shortly after the death of Muhammad. There was a disagreement over the hier of the "throne".

The Muslims have taken over many countries in the last several hundred years. They will try to take over here as well. They are not stupid enough to just invade us like Normandy, so they have "seeped" in. Believe me. I do believe the book of Ezekiel makes mention of that particular war.

Let me see if I can find the verse where Christians are "spiritual Israel". I think it may be in Psalms.

[Tazz]

Nope, not Psalms. It is Isaiah 44:5.

[Tazz]

Based on what I have read about the Crusades, the muslims (called some other name then...cannot remember what name) were attempting to take over and the Catholics just weren't having it. That depends on whose account you read. About three weeks ago, I watched a program on the history channel that was supposed to be historically correct. Much to my dismay, it was not. There were several historical facts that was never mentioned. By the time it was over, I was angry. It was another attempt by the "left" and the "media" to trash the Christians. I guess I won't be watching that again.

I know there were some books left out of the Bible. I read that they were left out because their truth could not be verified. I think it was the book of St. Clement that recounded Phillip's death. He was crucified upside down and because he would not forgive his enemies, God told him he could not enter heaven for 30 days.

Am I right about that particular book?

Probably not. I cannot remember doodly anymore.

[Tazz]

For those of you that are interested:

Apocryphal books

www.bible-history.com/links.php?cat=16&sub=304&cat_name=Ancient+Documents&subcat_name=Apocryphal

[grouchymom]

Tazz, I will be sure and show the link to my better half. He is a history buff and will surely find this vey interesting. He reads history books for pleasure. I,just as knuckledragger,was raised born and raised Catholic. I even graduated from a Catholic highschool. But as our six children grew up we allowed them to make their own choices about which religion they felt most comfortable with.

[Tazz]

I am certainly not very familiar with Catholicism with the exception of a few things. Those books that were not included in the Bible are a very interesting read for sure. Some of the same writings did make it to the Bible though. It's just one of those things that make you want to do research until your eyeballs fall out and your head hurts. But for me, the Bible is the only true word of God. I have always believed that and I guess I always will.

[knuckledragger]

OUTFU*KINGSTANDING TAZZ! I was going to be happy with a more simpler answer than you gave. Such as the obvious, Jesus was a Jew/Rabbi. Uh, the Muslim's do believe mostly in the same thing's. Just read the Quran.They don't believe Jesus to be the Mesiah, but the basic teaching's are the same. Let me clarify, a TRUE Muslim goes by the 10 commandment's just like Jew's, they have the same "Biblical" figure's, such as Moses, and Noah (although he is called something else, can't remember) with the great flood. They have the same Angel hierarchy that the Hebrew's have. And so on. The problem with all religion's is, most of your different sect's are due to power struggle's. Your example of Shite's and Sunni's was excellent. Kind of interesting when you look at the Christian sect's. Catholic's and protestant's. And sect's among sect's. Whew! There's too many to go on with! There is no such thing as the right or wrong religion. I tend to think everybody is right, but yet everybody is wrong. Weird to fathom, I know. The Jew's have a name for God that is 72 letter's long and un-pronounceable. To me, God is something human's really aren't capable of understanding. I don't think we were meant to. I still agree with the point you make about the left trying to appease Muslim's. My view is, f**k EM! The left is a bunch of coward ass pussy's that don't want to offend Muslim's because they're scared of another attack. Ol Benny Franklin had stated, "Those who choose security over freedom, deserve neither." I think that's an appropriate phrase for this topic (and gun control). "We" are choosing security over freedom of religion because of some piss ant, radical, Muslim's? To hell with the left and their cowrd ass way's. Oh yeah, I'll give more Karma's to who ever can answer this. Which middle eastern country is the most powerful (meaning military) and who is it keeping it on a leash when it should be let off? More commentary later, I gotta dig up Santy for Tazz and Ynot.