Religion

[knuckledragger]

Ol St. Patrick said the trinity thing pretty good. Good analogy. Other than running all the snakes out of Ireland, think he was pretty wise with the trinity statement. As a none follower of Christianity, I've tried to explain the whole trinity thing as best I could under Christian "lore." I've said many times before that I do not believe Jesus to be divine . Nor are God and Jesus one in the same despite what is written in the Bible. Or PERCEIVED what is written. In order to understand any religion, one must delve deeper into the subject other then the Bible. One has to take into account many things. Among them are : written by MAN, MEN decided what stays in the Bible and what goes, error in translations, words who's meanings have changed over the years, dialect in different regions, and last but certainly not least; what the author himself wanted to add or take away from. I think people who take the King James to be the only and true word, should study the religion in its entirety. One cannot say they know it all based on King James. Take a look at some of my previous posts. I tend to point out that theres more to the story then what is made mention of in mainstream Christianity. I think sometimes people REFUSE to look beyond mainstream Christianity, because they're afraid what they might find. A true test of ones faith is really getting into the subject, and if you find something that may shake your faith, then perhaps you were never a true believer to begin with. By the same token, you may find something not in King James that will strengthen your faith. I highly encourage people to really study their chosen faith in order to find out if its really the one for them. To me, we are ALL part of God. And we are all the "sons" of God. So I guess I don't need to be a follower of Christianity because I don't need Jesus or anyone else to show me the way or to be "saved." To me, to be truly saved, is to find God within yourself.

[lizzy]

How do I feel about the bible being the word of God.

Before I answer this question, let’s me talk about what I mean by the phrase Word of God when we talk about the Bible: in this sense, Word of God refers to those truths which God chose to have confined to written text for the sake of revealing his plan of salvation to mankind. This does not mean that God physically wrote the Bible and then dropped it from the sky one day when he was finished.

What the Catholic Church means when she calls the Bible the Word of God is that God inspired and prompted the writers of the books of the Bible to write that which he intended them to write. This doesn’t mean that God actually moved the pen of these writers, but that he guided their minds and hearts as they wrote in such a way as to only allow them to write the truths which he desired to reveal.

That being said, how can we know that all this is true of the Bible?

...the authority of the Bible is dependant upon the authority of the apostles.As in the case of God’s existence, to know (in the sense of absolute certainty, such as the knowledge that we have that 1+1=2) that these things are true is fairly unlikely. Therefore, what I will offer will not be proofs, but rather reasons which might suggest that the Bible is the Word of God. The fact is, whether or not the Bible is the Word of God is entirely dependant upon whether or not the Catholic Church has the ability to accurately teach in the name of God, a gift the Church calls infallibility.

Let me explain my beleif . The apostles were given the authority to teach and preserve the truth that Christ had revealed to him. They were also given the Holy Spirit to protect them from teaching error and to keep them from allowing the Gospel of Christ to be changed or adulterated. This authority was passed down through the ages; a process the Catholic Church calls apostolic succession.

It is important to remember that the canon of the Bible (the list of books that have been chosen as accurately reflecting the truth of Christ), was not put together until 405 A.D. (350 years after the death and resurrection of Christ). Before this time, there were many books written about Jesus and his message. The leaders of the Church had to come together and decide which books should and should not be included in the canon (the list of authoritative books). The Church finally settled on the canon that we have today.

Now, the question is, how do we know that these people who came up with the canon made the right choices?

If the apostles were never given the authority to teach in the name of God, and if this authority was never passed on down the ages, then the people who put the canon together in 405 A.D. would have had no way of knowing whether or not their choices were correct. But, if they had this authority and the gift of infallibility, then we can be sure that their canon of the Bible is free from error. We can trust that the list of books in our current Bible do in fact contain the Word of God.

The point here is that the authority of the Bible is dependant upon the authority of the apostles. We can trust that the words of the Bible are true because we trust Jesus as the Son of God, and trust that the authority that he gave to the apostles was a genuine authority to teach and preserve the truth of God. We trust that the Bible is the Word of God because we trust the authority of the Church, and we trust the authority of the Church because we trust the authority of Jesus, the Son of God.

So now that I have rambled on and on, I better go read my Bible some more.
Peace

[Tazz]

So which books are considered the canon?

[knuckledragger]

The books in the Bible as we know it, is the canon. However, a REAL Catholic Bible has the Apocryphal books in it as well. If you can find one, read it. Its pretty cool. Plus, it should have the exorcism rights in it too.

[Tazz]

Thanks Knuck. I like that avatar.

[knuckledragger]

LOL. That avatar is my friendly answer to FREEDS avatar with the Marine Corps logo he has up. Nothin, like inter-service rivalry. LOL. Although, I give more respect to someone who has worn the "uniform" for even just one day, than somebody who has NEVER worn it and talks shit.

[lizzy]

I use the Catholic youth bible because I find it the friednliset to use with my own children.
I have only once see one with the Apocryphal books in it. I must admit it was years ago and I did not read it. I must try and find it, as you are the second person in a week or so to mention it again.
Peace

[knuckledragger]

Lizzy, good luck! They are hard to come by, and if you do find one, you'll probably pay lots of $$$$$$ for it.

[lizzy]

lol nope I found one, It one I got at a yeard sale some years ago. Hmm I have found the books, all 15 , let me see what I think.

[knuckledragger]

C'mon Lizzy, I'm waiting for your opine. B.T.W. can I borrow that Bible when you're done with it, if it has the exorcism rights in it? I want to try it out on my cat. Maybe I can cast the demon out that causes her to claw the shit out of my couch and love seat, instead of the nifty scratching post I got her for Christmas. ;D

[lizzy]

lol Knuckle haven't even started to read it, found the bible great flea market find some years back. Found where I stashed it, located the books and said yup this has the 15 books, and stuck it on the counter. As I look there getting ready to go to church, i laugh going, might take some time before I read this. As for your cat, I say souloution is, get a fish tank.
Peace

[wizardborn1]

Why God never got tenure :

He had only one major publication
And it was in Hebrew
And it had no references
And it was not published in a refereed journal
And some even doubted that He wrote it Himself.
It may be true that He created the world, but what has He done since then?
His cooperative efforts have been quite limited.
The scientific community has had a very rough time trying to replicate His results.
He never applied to the Ethics Board for permission to use human subjects.
When one experiment went awry, He tried to cover it up by drowning the subjects.
When subjects did not behave as predicted, He often punished them, or just deleted them from the sample.
He rarely came to class: He just told students to read the book.
He has his son teach the class.
He expelled His first two students for learning too much.
Although there were only ten requirements, most students failed His tests.
His office hours were infrequent, and usually held on a mountain top.

[lizzy]

tIME TO RESURECT THIS THREAD,
My children and I were talking this week, and my son said, "Should we believe in what science tells us, or what religion tells us. Then we went on to discuss the big bang theory and creation. So my question to you all is science and religion, what do you believe.

Here is some of what i shared with my own children

Science is revealed by scientists, and scientists don’t always agree with one another. In fact they make it their business to disprove one another. It seems that to follow scientists takes more faith than to follow religious leaders. If all of your faith were placed in what the current scientists thought was true, imagine the shock you would have had to find out that the earth wasn’t really flat.

But the real issue here isn’t about science and religion; it is about people not wanting to follow rules that God has given us. If you want to have pre-marital sex, then it’s convenient to believe just in science because science doesn’t teach us anything about having an affair. If you want to steal at work, science doesn’t have much to say there either.

So when people ignore religion and just follow science, they are really just running from the truth. Following science alone allows people to make up their own rules of morality. So it is not surprising that people find following “science” far more convenient than following a religion that might challenge their views of morality as out of whack.

Our society places a great deal of importance upon science and technology, and rightfully so, the scientific discoveries over the years have been pretty incredible. But, science can never (and will never) contradict God. Why? Because science is the study of God’s creation. Whether it’s the solar system or human beings, scientist are seeking to understand the chemical and biological systems that God in his power and wisdom established. Science only helps explain God’s creation. So it is foolish to try to pit science and religion against one another, because it is impossible.

An essential truth of Christianity is that God created all things, and established mankind as the peak of his creation, giving him the breath of life, and enabling him to enter into a relationship with his creator. How or when this happened is an interesting question, but not one that we must necessarily know the answer to. Science may someday find the answer to when and how, and when they do, it will only enlighten us further on the mystery and power of God.

My son, lol said ok mom thanks for the talk. I think he then went and stole my answers for his class assignment.

So you all should we beleive in only science or only religion. Can they co exist?

[knuckledragger]

Lizzy, I'm gonna drag your behind! View previous posts. Science neither proves or disproves ANYTHING. All it attempts to do, is reinforce a theory. Faith and science can co-exist. What one lacks, the other makes up for. Hence the term faith. Even in science you will find faith. Science will never be able to create life from nothing. This is where faith comes in. All science does, is take from a living being already in existence, and applies it to another. Science can neither prove a "true fact." Mathematicians have been debating for years whether 2+2 really equals 4. What does that tell ya? It's basically all semantics. Nothing but labels. However, as far as religion goes, science can NEVER take your belief in God away. Know why? Cause they cant prove or disprove, and will NEVER be able to.

[lizzy]

Don't drag my butt,it is already dragging I been at the mall with teenagers for 3 hours today.
I would but my religion beliefs above any scientist any day. My faith is the proof that something is real. Just trying to bring this thread life as I think it is the best thread yet.