Religion

[knuckledragger]

GM, Tazz will probably ask what were smokin again. Remember, puff, puff, give.

[Tazz]

I know that Grouchymom is smokin' something. She cannot blame it on the coffee today. ;D So she probably got that "smokin' stuff" from you Knuck! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[grouchymom]

This is what I believe religion is:
Religion is what humans turn spirituality into to fit there own ideals of what they themselves perceive. I'm talking about all the different sects that originate from one faith. Many of the sects have the same core belief but believe that even the others within their own faith are wrong. These sects are normally not forged out of their actual core documents, rather by their own interpretation of what the core document is communicating. Which usually always seem to have a different interpretation. Sometimes people within religions, in positions of authority are corrupt. Sometimes the people in positions of power do a fine job of representing their faith. Almost sounds like DOC doesn't it?

[knuckledragger]

I agree with that. Strikes me as ones perception of being the truth. Truth is an interesting concept. One mans truth is another mans lie. I think this is why faith is so important. "TRUTH" can be used to deceive. Make it sound believable especially when it comes to matters of faith, and you can control people. I've said it before, If you can control what people believe through their fears of the unknown, than you control them absolutely. I think maybe this is why I'm so tough on organized religion. They don't tell the truth per say, they just give you bits and pieces in the hopes you'll come back for more. Most churches don't take the time to search for the truth at all. If they did, the Bible as we know it would be alot heavier. How can you denounce something you've probably never read or studied? How can you say what is true and what is not? How can you sit there and let someone tell you what to believe in? To me these are important things to ponder. I have said a few times before that I have tattoos that are of a religious nature (even though I don't put much stock in the bible) and am happy when people ask me what they mean. Because I literally where my faith and heart on my sleeve.

[Tazz]

I don't necessarily believe what a man tells me to believe. Yes, I have heard literally thousands of scriptural based sermons, talks, etc. Do I believe every word of it? No. What I believe is what I read in the Bible. There is no doubt the Bible has been somewhat "skewed" from its original text. However, "spirit filled" christians have the luxury of the Almighty leading them. Those of us that are not spirit filled have no clue what it means. I am not spirit filled now but I was at one time. God will lead you and teach you if you allow Him. But He will not reveal himself to people like me who "play church". I want to be spirit filled again but I have been too bad for too long. Now my heart is bitter, angry and harder than Knuckeldraggers' head. ;D

But I am constantly seeking avenues available to teach me the "innocence" that I once had! God is perception? Nope. God is for real.........but you will never know that until you actually experience "salvation" and "spiritual growth". Been there, done that. That is truth.

[knuckledragger]

Interesting. So one has to be a Christian to be spiritually filled? To do whats right or be a servant of God is only in the realm of Christianity? I must be one evil sumbitch then cause I do not worship Jesus. What if God had sent someone like me to straighten everyone out, would I be worshiped? HELL NO! Jesus may have been a preacher, but he still is NOT God. Tazz, follow me, I will not lead you astray. After all, I may be a foul mouthed knuckledraggin' convict guard, but I am the hand of God. LOL! Point is, being a Christian doesn't make one any better than anyone else nor does it make one right. Anyone can say anything and get a following. Look at our buddy Hitler. That pieceofshit was an awesome speaker and had most of "his" people do horrible things. If you have a good talk game, you can get people to do whatever you want. The only thing I knock about Christianity is it's followers. Alot appear to be self righteous assholes who really do NOT follow the perceived
"teachings" of Jesus. Jesus was human (according to the Gnostic's he wasn't, but thats another discussion) and made mistakes. So much for being Divine. To me Christians tend to be the least tolerant. What makes a "good" Christian? Is it going to church every Sunday (or temple)? Is it preaching the word of Jesus when no one really knows what he said( we can blame our friends at the Vatican for that, citing some of the Dead Sea scrolls as blasphemy) ? What exactly does it mean to be a Christian, and a "good" one at that? If following Jesus makes you a better person to the world , then by all means continue. However, one must really do some self reflecting and try to discover their own reasons for believing and what it really means to be a Christian. If I offended anyone out there, tough shit. That just means I made you do a self reflection.

[knuckledragger]

A karma to Tazz for calling me hard headed. ;D

[grouchymom]

Here's George Carlin's view on the 10 Commandments. Makes sense to me. And no I don't believe that you have to go to church to be a Christian. It's what's in our hearts that counts. If it's hate,shame on you. If it's love, then you are truly blessed!

George's views and I have to agree:

"Here is my problem with the Ten commandments- why are there 10?

You don't need ten. I think that the list of ten commandments was artificially and deliberately inflated to get it up to ten. It's a padded list.
Here's what they did:

About 5,000 years ago a bunch of religious and political hustlers got together to try to figure out how to control people, how to keep them in line. They knew people were basically stupid and would believe anything they were told, so they announced that G-d had given them some commandments... up on a mountain, when no one was around...G-d gave them the 10 Commandments.

Well let me ask you this- when they were sitting around, making this **** up, why did they pick 10? Why not 9 or 11? I'll tell you why- because 10 sound official. Ten sounds important! They knew that if it was the 11 Commandments, people wouldn't take them seriously. They'd say, "What, are you kidding me? The 11 Commandments, get the **** out of here!" But ten...ten sounds official! Ten is the basis for the decimal system, it's a decade, it's a psychologically satisfying number (the top ten, the ten most wanted, the ten best dressed). So having ten commandments was really a marketing decision! To me, it is clearly a ******** list. It's a political document artificially inflated to sell better. I will now show you how you can reduce the number of commandments and come up with a list that's a little more workable and logical. I'm going to start with the first thre, and I am going to use the Roman Catholic version because those were the ones I was taught as a little boy:

I AM THE LORD THY G-D,
THOU SHALT NOT HAVE STRANGE GODS BEFORE ME

THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY G-D IN VAIN

THOU SHALT KEEP HOLY THE SABBATH

Right off the bat the first three are pure ********. Sabbath day? Lord's name? strange gods? Spooky language! Designed to scare and control primitive people. In no way does superstitious nonsense like this apply to the lives of intelligent civilized humans in the 21st century. Throw out the first three commandments, now we're down to 7.
Next:

HONOR THY FATHER AND MOTHER

Obedience, respect for authority. Just another name for controlling people. The truth is that obedience and respect should not be automatic. They should be earned, they should be based on the parent's performance. Some parents deserve respect, but most of them don't, period. You're down to six.

Now in the interest of logic, something religion is very uncomfortable with, we're going to jump around the list a little bit.

THOU SHALT NOT STEAL

THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS

Stealing and lying. Well actually, these two both prohibit the same kind of behaviour- dishonesty. So you don't really need two you combine them and call the commandment "thou shalt not be dishonest". And suddenly you're down to 5.

And as long as we're combining I have two others that belong together:

THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTRY

THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S WIFE

Once again, these two prohibit the same type of behaviour. In this case, marital infidelity. The difference is- coveting takes place in the mind. But I don't think you should outlaw fantasizing about someone else's wife, because what is a guy gonna think about when he's waxing his carrot? But, marital fidelity is a good idea so we're gonna keep this one and call it "thou shalt not be unfaithful". And suddenly, we're down to four.

But when you think about it, honesty and fidelity are really part of the same overall value so, in truth, you could combine the two honesty commandments with the two fidelity commandments and give them simpler language, positive language instead of negative and call the whole thing "thou shalt always be honest and faithful" and we're down to 3.

THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S GOODS

This one is just plain ****in' stupid. Coveting your neighbor's goods is what keeps the economy going! Your neighbor gets a vibrator that plays "O come all ye faithful", and you want one too! Coveting creates jobs, leave it alone. You throw out coveting and you're down to 2 now- the big honesty and fidelity commandment and the one we haven't talked about yet:

THOU SHALT NOT KILL

Murder. The fifth commandment. But when you think about it, religion has never really had a big problem with murder Not really. More people have been killed in the name of G-d than for any other reason. All you have to do is look at Northern Ireland, the Middle East, Kashmir, the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the World Trade Center to see how seriously the religious folks take thou shalt not kill. The more devout they are, the more they see murder as being negotiable. It depends on who's doin the killin' and who's gettin' killed. So, with all of this in mind, I leave you with my revised list of the two commandments:

Thou shalt always be honest and faithful
to the provider of thy nookie.

&

Thou shalt try real hard not to kill anyone, unless of course
they pray to a different invisible man than the one you pray to.

Two is all you need; Moses could have carried them down the hill in his ****in' pocket. And if they had a list like this, I wouldn't mind those folks in Alabama posting them on the courthouse wall, as long as they provided one additional commandment:

Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself."

[livetoride]

AMEN!! ;D ;D ;D

[Tazz]

George Carlin has to deal with God in his own way. It makes no difference to me what Carlin thinks. He has made literally "zillions" of dollars just being stupid. Whatever works for him. It would be interesting to see what Carlin would say if he were to find himself face to face with God. Whew! I am sorry I am gonna miss that!

As I said before, "spirit filled" is something you can't possibly know about unless you have experienced it firsthand. No Grouchymom, you don't necessarily have to go to church. But, if you are "spirit filled" and you do not meet with God on your knees on a regular basis, the Holy Spirit will leave you. Praying is something that is necessary to communicate with God. It must be exercised, felt and used constantly. Like I said, I can only put certain things in words. A "spirit filled" christian is someone who is completely different than the rest of us. Again, I can say that because I used to be one. They aren't better than anyone else, they just have the privilege of being at Gods throne because they obey Him. Spirit filled goes hand in hand with inner peace like you have never known. Whatever happens, whoever hurts you if okay. That incredible inner peace takes over. Again, you cannot possibly know unless you have been there!

I wish I could better express what exactly I mean. Perhaps there is someone else out there who can help me out!

[grouchymom]

Okay,Tazz all joking aside. Here's what I feel about inner peace. I have inner peace and I do believe it is because of my own personal religious beliefs. I follow the teachings of Christianity, Buddism and other non-Christian sects. It might help to understand what inner peace is and isn’t. Inner peace is not a state obtained where finally everything about our self, our life, and our world is perfect. Inner peace is not found at the end of a goal. Instead, it is an internal sense of calm in which we receive all life's experiences. It is the ability to handle situations and conflicts, in life and in ourselves, with acceptance, empathy, and creativity. Inner peace can also be defined as having a calmness and general freedom from anxiety. Inner peace is about connection: to self, to nature (earth), to a higher self, and to others. There is no one path to inner peace. Despite promises, no one can give you inner peace. The path does not lie outside of you or with another person. Inner peace is a state that we can all experience, if we are willing to be with ourselves and give up our self-hatred. Inner peace is gained when we decide that who we are is worthy of being empowered and expressed on earth. Each of us will find inner peace in our own way. It may be achieved as a gift from a higher being, or a strength within ourselves, or through the loving guidance of another who wishes to share a higher state of being. What you search for is inside of you and the journey must be into yourself. And each of us will find our own ways to return to this state of calmness, perfection and strength

[Tazz]

I think you are partially right. There are some things that I cannot possibly express in words. I wish I could. All I know is that being "spirit filled" is something that I miss terribly for many different reasons. Inner peace being one of those things.

I guess one statement would work though. "Once you have been touched by God himself; you NEVER forget it".

[wizardborn1]

Speaking of praying, I was curious if anyone has read {Conversations with God} written by Neale Walsh? If so what was your opinion?

[grouchymom]

wizardborn I haven't read the book yet but after reading a synopsis of it I will get it and have it read by this week-end. Thanks for suggesting this book! Apparently this is a series of 3 books. They have now been incorporated into one book called "The Complete Conversations with God". I will buy it and plan to share it.

[knuckledragger]

I'm so glad I started this thread. Lots of interesting points of view. I'm actually noticing people starting to question whether theyve been lead astray in their life at one time or another.