Religion

[there6768]

Ok, I fear God, go to church everytime the door is open, (most of the time), but can't say I have ever thumped my bible though. But I have read it. And you know what? It works for me. "I believe" that is why I'm happy, and not grouchy, My spouse is my best friend, and the love of my life after nearly 40 years. My children are loved and they are happy. My grandchildren are loved and they too are happy. Our church families also provides those things like fellowship, love, ministry, etc. and that too works for me. So where did I go wrong? Cheap shot Grouchymom.

As for the matallic glowing beings, ect. well, we really don't know do we. Is there other worlds as ours? Maybe, and I think so. But believing "that" or "not" is wonderful "free will", and should not be cause for ridicule either way. And yes, My God is much smarter than me.

[knuckledragger]

SWEET JESUS, MARY, AND JOESPH! OUT****INGSTANDING GROUCHYMOM!!!!! A karma for you! You said what I was trying to point out. I also like some of the references you made especially in the book of Ezekiel with the visions he had and the manner in which he described them. It does indeed sound like U.F.O.'S and aliens. At times I wonder if some of these visions weren't the voice of God or Gods chariots but perhaps beings from somewhere else and NOT of a Divine nature. That would be kinda scary taking instruction from some entity other than the Divine. This begs the question of whether our good friends like Elijah, and Muhammad were takin' to heaven by Gods angels or whisked away by some stank ass alien? The old saying that, "Truth is stranger than fiction," is very true. Once again, I'm proud of you Grouchymom, very,very, impressed.

[grouchymom]

there6768. I am truly sorry if I offended you. It was not my intent to offend anyone, but instead to get some of the hundreds of viewers to this site to jump in and give opinions and experiences. My spouse and I have raised successfully six children who now as adults are God fearing, law abiding citizens. Although I was raised Catholic and even went to Catholic schools, we chose not to force religion on our children and instead gave them the opportunity to follow their own path. All believe in God, some regularly attend church, some don't, but let the teachings of the Bible guide their life decisions.

[Logan]

Mein teil. If I may. On the subject of heaven, do we go or not? I would have to say not, generally. You have to be really pure for that-Re.14:1-3. Add to this the fact that it was not gods intent for man to dwell there. Our place is on the earth, ps.72:8, re.21:3-4. A kind of Cliff's notes for the bible is contained in Job. To summise, our accuser Satan put forth the idea that man only loved God for the good he did for us and that men could get along nicely without him. Once the idea was put forth the seed of doubt was planted in many of the angels minds. God now had two choices, destroy all and start over or let Satan run with it till he falls on his face.
Now Adam was created perfect and would not have died had he not sinned. He was warned that in the day he ate of the tree he would die and he did(scripturally Ps.90:4, a thousand years is but a day to God). In the time immediately after Adam people lived just shy of a thousand years. As time has passed, with Satan running the show, or life span has shortened. With the exception of the last fifty or so years because of medical advancements or life span is almost nil. This is why the scriptures say that God has to soon intervene before there is no flesh to save.
It is our design to live forever. All our cells replicate daily and even the scientists agree that the process should be able to continue flawlessly but it doesn't. Why? The corrupting agent, sin.
Now to add my own speculations. Why doesn't the bible mention dinosaurs? We know they were here. Why doesn't it mention creatures on other worlds? Probability dictates they must exist. The answer is simply, because it's not time for those things. Humans get bored unless they are learning and an immortal human would be unhappy if he knew everything. God forbid I should die, wake up as a spirit in heaven and know everything there is to know. That, I believe why God loves us so. He knows all but like any parent he enjoys watching the joy his children get out of learning new and wondrous things. ;D ;D ;D

[grouchymom]

druidlogan, mein liebchen, if I may I believe that the Bible is a book of Faith not science but this is what i come up with: According to Genesis 1-2 God began and finished His creation in six days. That includes mankind and all animals. What we as human beings struggle with is the lack of information in the Bible concerning dinosaurs and how to reconcile carnivorous dinosaurs (and other large animals) cohabiting with men. We cannot prove any theory about dinosaurs just as evolution cannot prove that the earth evolved. But we have to consider that
first, we must begin with faith. God said He created the earth and all that is in it in six days, and we should believe that fact even if it means that dinosaurs were around during the time of Adam and Eve. Second, consider Genesis 2:19: "Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name." It is interesting that the verse says that God brought "every" creature to Adam. There is nothing in this verse to indicate that dinosaurs were left out. Third, all mankind and all animals were vegetarians in the beginning. Eating meat didn't begin until after the flood (Gen. 9:3-4), thus man and dinosaurs (including T-rex!) could roam the earth together without fear of becoming a meal. Fourth, there is a possible indication that some dinosaurs were around at least until the time of Job. For example, according to Job 40-41 there were at least two creatures that appear to be similar to dinosaurs (the behemoth -- with a "tail like a cedar," and Leviathan -- so fierce that no one would dare stand up to him). And that's my 2 pfennings worth. LOL

[Logan]

First let say that science and God work had in hand. There can be no other way. That's how we know the bible was divinely inspired. The men writing it would not know a bout germs to write the scientifically sound rules in Leviticus or accurately describe the planet as in Psalms. With that said.
Looking at the fossil record man has been around about six thousand years. Dinosaurs died out a half million before that. Oh and the six thousand years is in tune biblically and secularly. From the beginning as the bible shows man has had language and with language writing. That's about as far back as any written documents go, 6K.
As for the theory of evolution. If something evolves or mutates what it once was no longer exists. If man came from monkeys there would be none at the zoo.

[knuckledragger]

Heres food for thought. Maybe the giants that was described in Geneses is really dinosaurs and not angels coming down and making out with mortal women. Far fetched I know, lol. There is a joke I read somewhere about God and a scientist. I know for certain science will never be able to create life from nothing, another reason why I believe in God. Anyway, the joke goes something like this : God and a scientist were standing around one day having a pissing contest over who was better at creating life. God said, "I created life in six days." The scientist said, " Well, I can create life in half the time." They both stood in silence for a moment. The scientist then reached down and grabbed a handful of dirt and said, "I can create life from this dirt." God with a sly smile on his face, said, "Well then, if you can do all that, go and make your own dirt!" Moral of the story? Science will NEVER be able to create something from nothing. All the "life" that science has "created" is already from something else that has existed. All it does is take from one living entity and puts into another. Now thats some heavy sh*t to ponder!

[Tazz]

I think all of you have been sippin' coffee with Grouchymom! I want all of you to put the cups down and back away from the coffee maker! Jeez!

OMG! I am out of Excedrin!

I'm melting, melting...............

[knuckledragger]

Coffee??? No self respecting psychopath drinks coffee. I'll try and back away from the med's here in a bit if it'll make ya feel better Tazz. ;D

[grouchymom]

druidlogan wrote: "Looking at the fossil record man has been around about six thousand years. Dinosaurs died out a half million before that. Oh and the six thousand years is in tune biblically and secularly. From the beginning as the bible shows man has had language and with language writing. That's about as far back as any written documents go, 6K.
As for the theory of evolution. If something evolves or mutates what it once was no longer exists. If man came from monkeys there would be none at the zoo."

According to what I have read, dinosaurs like T-Rex croaked about 65 MILLION years ago. The last mammoths gave up the ghost about 11,000 years ago, and some of their remains that old and older have been found with spear points and clear evidence of having been butchered with knife-like edges. The earliest humanoids have been found as fossils up to 3.2 million years old or older. Homo-Erectus, has been dated at 1.6 million years old. Cro-Magnon remains have been dated as old as 30,000 to 32,000 years old. What is interesting is fossil evidence indicates the first Neanderthals showed up about 200,000 years ago and did not die off in south-west Europe until about 30,000 years ago which means our closest prehistoric relative, Cro-Magnon, walked the earth at the same time as Neanderthal - the point being, these two took different evolutionary paths, one adapted and evolved into us, the other did not and is history. Today's apes are also the result of a different evolutionary path but most likely diverged from the path we took 3.5 - 4 million years ago or even earlier. Regarding writing, stones have been found in French Mas d' Azil caves occupied by man 12,000 to 16,000 years ago that bore markings and annotations which indicates written records were kept in the Stobe Age! Annotations on deer horns and other bones indicate basic records and astronomical observations were documented thousands of years before the written records of Egypt or Sumeria. Evolution is in part the process of a plant or animal adapting to it's environment. Sharks, crocs, alligators and horseshoe crabs have changed little over millions of years. A perfect and simple example of evolution is a common freshwater fish like an oscar. If you let it run in the river or lake, it will grow quite large - put it in a fish tank and it will remain small. Another is the mammoth. We think of it as a large animal but thousands of years ago, before they croaked, the Catalina Islands off California were part of the mainland but drifted apart because of the well known California fauilt lines, The mammoths that were trapped on the islands evolved into significantly smaller creatures because they adapted to the smaller land mass and food supply. The point being, both the original and the changed animal still exist but are different. In the case of the fish, they could come from the same group of eggs, the mammonth change occurred over a great number of generations - think what change to these that millions of years would have caused. Based on the above I cannot help but believe that man was communicating, writing, killing each other and looking thoughtfully at the stars long before the Bible was committed to print.

[knuckledragger]

Another karma for you GM. As well as Druid. You both display a VERY keen interest in discovering the "truth." I am very impressed with both of you. I thought I was the only one that questioned the Bible as written. I do not take the word of some dicksucker on a podium that hasn't had the ball's to research more into religion and then just denounce what is NOT in the Bible. These ****'s have no clue to what they are saying, and worse yet, are leading their "people" astray. I cannot stand Church for this reason. It's probably been close to 20 years since I went to mass, and I swear to sonny Jesus I will never go again. To be one with God is not going to church or going through Jesus. It is finding God on ones own and accepting that you may be the greatest creation, but you are still a servant to God. If you cannot accept you are a servant to God without someone telling you, you are hopelessly lost in my opinion. this is why I don't need someone telling me the "word" of God. I've felt it for many, many years.

[wizardborn1]

Anyone here heard of "Soul Twins" ? Knuck dare I say you may be mine? You are a rare but neccessary breed. Your one of a kind. The genuine article. Sometimes in this time and space we are assumably sharing we somehow stumble accross another human soul that appears to be thinking the same thoughts at that same point in time. Is this ESP? Do you ever just feel an intense separation from the rest of the universe but at the same time you know you are a part that makes up the whole? Anyone have an interpretation? (that does not involve drug use or psychobabble)

[there6768]

None taken Grouchymom. You said you wanted us thumpers to jump in, and I obliged and did so for those that were, and would not. I've been around to long to let it do so.

Not all of us thumpers have a problem with the scientific age of the earth either. Nor with T-Rex or the neanderthals. In Genesis, something happened in verse 2 to undo verse 1. In the original Hebrew the words create is used in the 1 verse and then to create man and animals. From verse 3 to when he created man, the words are restoration, not create. How long was the earth in existence during verse one. Billions of years maybe. What happen in verse 2? In Jeremiah 4: 23- 28, I will only quote 4 of those verses: I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and , lo there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and , lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger.

Since verse 23 is restating the 2 verse of Ch. 1 of Genesis, that tells me that man, cities animals etc. existed during verse one. It was all destroyed somehow. Then God restored it to what we have now 6000 years or so ago. Meteorite? Maybe, but if so I believe that God sent it.

[knuckledragger]

One of a kind and a rare but necessary breed? Holy crap! Now that's deep! I've been compared to a theologian and now this. Wizard, you're gonna give me an inflated ego, lol. I just simply speak my mind and try to point out that theres more to this subject than meets the eye. Anyway, had an interesting discussion with a friend of mine about science and religion. To me, both subjects tend to be relevant. In science for instance, if you keep asking the questions why, what if, and how; eventually the smartest people in the world will all have the SAME answer. Know what the answer is? It's, "I DON'T KNOW". Interesting isn't it? If you keep asking three little questions over and over in ANY particular field of science, the end result will be an "I don't know." Same thing with religion. The relevancy of both issues is when one cannot attempt to answer a question, the other does, or at least trys. So they're really not at odds with each-other but rather compliment each-other. At least thats how I look at it. Lets take something like antibiotics for example. Keep asking HOW and WHY they work next time you see your Doctor and I promise he/she will not know. They will give a standard text book answer, but in the end will give up in frustration because you kept asking HOW or WHY to every answer they give. Religion attempts to fill in the holes science leaves behind. Interesting that they are both man made creations. At the same time you're putting your Doctor through hell with being a pain in the ass asking too many questions, try it with your Preacher, Priest, Rabbi or whatever. They too will give the same answer, "I don't know." If they say its because of God, thats the same as an I don't know. Who really knows what Gods plan is or why God does the things he/she does? NOBODY. The common thread science and religion both have is: FAITH.

[grouchymom]

To me, science and religion are one and the same. Most especially the biological sciences and religion. When you know what the probability of any given combination of DNA from both of your parents coming together is, you realize that you yourself are a wonderous miracle. When you know the amazing delicacy of the processes which create you and keep your cells working day to day, you realize that your continued existence is a further miracle. When you see the diversity of life on earth, you know that there is creativity. When you see how the whole is so much greater than the parts (on every level of organization within the biosphere), you know that something has transcended. When you know that only FOUR little molecules can come together in combinations that have created the amazing diversity of life on earth, how can you help but wonder at the beauty and incredible design? And when you realize what the incredible odds against any and all of these events ever happening are, how can you possibly think that there are not gods?

I genuinely don't understand the views of Christians who think that Genesis should be taken absolutely literally, so that science ought to be rejected. Why not see God as the Guide of Evolution? It certainly couldn't have happened on its own. Something out there is helping probability. And even if you reject evolution, how can you reject science as a whole? Why not think that God made the rules and plays by them? Hope this makes sense.