Religion

[roadrunner]

Someone convince me that God is good, God is great and God looks out for the little children while I watch the news and see the slaughter of innocents in Lake Butler. An I'll bet that at the funeral, the preacher will say God has called his children home. Why did God not let them have a long and fullfilling life, falling in love and having their own kids. Explain that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tazz]

Well I can somewhat. In the book of Isaiah, there are a few passages that really caught my attention. There are no old folks in heaven; meaning regardless of your age when you die, you will be approximately the same age as Jesus when you arrive in heaven. There is also a passage that addresses what we see as untimely death. Sometimes people die to spare them from a worse life here on earth. I wish I could remember exactly where it is in Isaiah. Perhaps I can find it in a day or two. I know all that sounds crazy immediately following the deaths of 7 people, but that's the best I can do. I pray for those that loved them all.

I can't say why certain things happen. I can only say that God never promised us a rose garden, he just said that He would "make straight your paths". He meant that He would equip you with whatever you need to deal with life if you worshipped Him and followed Him.

[Logan]

Okay, GM. Sorry I took so long to get back to you on this subject. I had to wait till my day off, so I could look up some info.
You whipped out some stats on me regarding evolution. I think we are arguing for the same side of the coin albeit with different intell. I find you to be very intelligent and educated. With that said I would like to continue to disagree about Darwin’s theory of evolution or more properly titled “The Origin of Species”.
First off, Webster defines evolution as, “gradual changes that take place as something develops into it’s final form,” I.e. a frog from a tadpole. Secondly, adaptation, “to change so as to make fit.” 2. “to change oneself to fit new conditions.” The examples you gave of the Oscar and the Mammoth were of adaptation not evolution.
Now if Darwin’s theory was fact then the fossil record should show gradual changing from one kind of life to another. There should have been fossils with developing legs, arms, wings or eyes. Like a fossilized reptile with it’s front legs turning into wings. None have been found. The fossil record does not contain any transitional links even Darwin admitted it. Origin of Species pg.55., “Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely-graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection which can be urged against the theory.”
Before I go on , let me break down the theory of evolution to it’s simplest components. No life- a few molecules combine into amino acids( it takes 20 acids to support life, only 4 have been recreated in a lab)-these acids fall into some kind of ooze-they become single cell organisms-they become multi-celled-they become fish-fish become amphibians- amphibians become reptiles-reptiles become mammals-mammals become apes-apes become man.
Starting at the beginning. “The critical first billion years, during which life began, are blank pages in earth’s history.”-Red Giants and White Dwarfs by Robert Jastrow. Okay, no life. One cell to multicell. “The record of the rocks contain very little, other than bacteria and one celled plants until, about a billion years ago, after some 3 billion years of invisible progress, a breakthrough occurred. The first many celled creatures suddenly appear.”-Robert Jastrow. [Oops, no transition there] We are at what is called the Cambrian period now. Described in the book, A View of Life, as “Beginning at the base of the Cambrian period and extending for about 10 million years, all the major groups of skeleton zed invertebrates made there first appearance in the most spectacular rise in diversity ever recorded on our planet.” [Uh, we just went from single cell to trilobites and jelly fish, no finely-graduated chain there either].
The layers above the Cambrian outburst are repeatedly the same, new kinds of animals and plants suddenly appear with no connection with anything that went before and once on the scene continue with very little change. The New Evolutionary Timetable states: “The record now reveals that species typically survive for a hundred thousand generations, or even a million or more, without evolving very much. After their origins, most species undergo little evolution before becoming extinct.”
Okay, invertebrates to fish. In The next of the Giraffe, Francis Hitching, he states, “Fish jump into the fossil record seemingly from nowhere: mysteriously, suddenly, fully formed.”
For the fish to become amphibian a pelvis would have to be integrated into the spinal column. No fossils of fish with rudimentary pelvises have been found.
This is getting quite long. Pardon me if I jump ahead to the ape man part of the theory. If I must I’ll cover amphibian through ape in a later post.
Here’s what some reputable, scientific resources say about the fossil record of ape to man: On the sparseness of fossils, Elwyn Simons, Duke University quoted in Newsweek, “You could put all the fossils on the top of a single desk.” Science Digest-”The remarkable fact is that all the physical evidence we have for human evolution can still be placed, with room to spare, inside a single coffin.”
Much of the so called evidence of missing links are fraud, like Piltdown man discovered in 1912. It wasn’t until the 50’s that it was discovered that the bones of a man and an ape had been pieced together and artificially aged. Ramapithecus was reportedly the first human-like ape but the entire report was based on the fragments of an upper jaw, lower jaw and a few teeth. Neanderthal man, our classic cave man, pictured bent over and stupid looking, was found to be a human badly deformed from disease, Origins pg.52. Cro-Magnon, “These specimens were so virtually indistinguishable from those of today that even the most skeptical had to concede that they were humans.”-Lucy pg.29
Lastly, the dates on all these fossils. The ages have all been determined by radio carbon dating which is at best accurate at 1500 years or less. Popular Science 1979, Robert Gammon- “dates determined by radio active decay may be off not only by a few years but by orders of magnitude. Man instead of having walked the earth for 3.6 million years may have been around only for a few thousand.”
There have been various studies that have found that the rate of radioactive carbon formation in the atmosphere has not been consistent in the past and that this method is not reliable for dating objects from about 2000 B.C. or before.

[LockInaSock]

Roadrunner unlike many Christians I don't believe that God micromanages us but pretty much leaves us to our own devices, wars, diseases and tragedies. I think in a way the Lord is probably somewhat of an existentialist and has mercy on our souls depending on how we have conducted ourselves in this life and although I am a practicing Anglican ( now there is a word to google) I believe that God lets us make our own mistakes (as well as accidents) and judges us appropriately .

[lizzy]

Well, if evolution is a true theory, then of course it is not wrong to believe in it. If it is a false theory, then it may not be wrong to believe in it, but it might be kind of dumb to do so. So, the real question is whether or not the Theory of Evolution is true. This question is still open to much debate, which is why it is called a theory.

...the evolution question does not make or break Christianity.Until this question is resolved by science, you are free to speculate in one direction or the other, but know that the answer to the evolution question does not make or break Christianity.

An essential truth of Christianity is that God created all things, and established mankind as the peak of his creation, giving him the breath of life, and enabling him to enter into a relationship with his creator. How or when this happened is an interesting question, but not one that we must necessarily know the answer to. Science may someday find the answer to when and how, and when they do, it will only enlighten us further on the mystery and power of God.

[Ynot]

I have personally stayed away from this subject because I'm not knowledgeable when it comes to religion, so I haven't added to it. One parent was Methodist, the other Catholic, so us kids were raised Baptist. Imagine that...lol So I take a little from this one, and a little from that one. Jesus was sent to this earth, he died on the cross for our sins. That's all I need to know. As far as how long it took to make the earth, and all that, I really care not. It's here, we're here, and it took one helluva achievement to accomplish all that.

The accident today sent chills down my spine, I personally can't understand why children have to die like that. I know they say, God has a greater plan, but sometime you just wish you knew what it was so it might make some things a little easier so swallow.

God Bless the family that just lost so many children at one time, (how do you even begin to cope with a loss of one child much less all at the same time). My heart hurts for them, and words no matter how kind and sweet can never ever make that pain go away.

[Ynot]

One a lighter note: I just got this in e-mail and thought it went with some of the subjects being discussed:



If people evolved from apes, why are there still apes?[/i][/b]


And my FAVORITE......

The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends -- if they're okay, then it's you.

[roadrunner]

Druidlogan. Looks like you and grouchymom got it going on.

I think that adaptation and evolution are like cause and effect. A perfect example would be whales and dolphins. A part of the evolutionary idea is that life went from the sea to the land and some then went back to the sea. I do not know if whales and dolphins are coming or going but if you examine their remains, there are residual bones in their front fins that greatly resemble hand/finger or foot/toe bones. If I remember correctly, some remnants of similar bones can be found where hind legs would have been or are going to be. What about pinguins? They are classified as birds but instead of having wings they have really long flippers. Are the flippers fins that are evolving into wings or wings evolving into fins because the bird would rather swim than fly? I think we would need to observe them for hundreds of thousands of years to get an idea. I say that in response to your statement ,"There should have been fossils with developing legs, arms, wings or eyes. Like a fossilized reptile with it’s front legs turning into wings. None have been found." Also, I would suspect that the reason there are gaps in the evolutionary record of various species is because certain enviromental conditions must exist that will enable bones to become fossils and therefore being preserved. I have not done the research you have obviously done and must rely on my best memory from my high school education but I think carbon dating can be done on organic matter but not fossils which are composed of minerals that have replaced the organic material. I do not recall there being any organic matrial left from one or more million years ago and if I remeber correctly, fossils are dated by the rock strata they are found in. Somewhere I seem to recall the Grand Canyon being an example of a place where geology can be read like a book because the various levels of rock appear as leaves of a book.

Deciding if God created all we know or if it is just good old mother nature is fuel for many good discussions. But to talk of God and religion, we must also decide if God is the only god and if we have it right or did the Romans, Greeks and others who recognized Luna as the god of the moon, Zeus as the god or ruler of the sky, Mars as the god of war, Poseidon as the god of the sea and on and on and on. Many gods with their own specific responsibility would seem to be much easier on a god than one god running everything. With so many religions active in the world today, who is right? The Muslims think they have it right and want to kill all the non-believers, first and foremost it seems they want to kill Christians. Shoot, even the Christians want to kill each other, look at the Protestants and Catholics in Ireland. I can understand why people sometimes get confused by religion.

[knuckledragger]

WOW! One whole page where I didnt type shit!

[knuckledragger]

Ynot, you know youse ma dawg. I'm glad you finally got the courage to post. "RELIGIOUS KNOWLEDGE" does not exist. Don't put your self down by comparing yourself with us. We don't know shit about anything. Just speaking what we feel. You can go on forever debating who's right or wrong, but still the fact remains, NOBODY knows! A karma to you for finally speaking what you feel.

[Tazz]

God does know! But he's right Ynot, hit us with your best shot! ;D

[grouchymom]

I, as a mother cannot even beging to understand why things like this tragedy happens. How can we find comfort in this time of mourning? This is where our faith and inner peace takes over. Something like this tragedy is unimaginable. But when you accept a higher being, whomever you wish to worship, into your heart, you will get the strength to live through this terrible time. I'm having problems this a.m. trying to collect my thoughts about this. Hope this makes some sense.

[Tazz]

Grief sometimes overwhelms us. Be free to grieve in whatever manner you choose. I am fairly certain that you knew some or all of these children. Sometimes words just won't cut it.

[knuckledragger]

What the hell is this God shit under tazz's name??

[wizardborn1]

Just caught that too. LOL Yes Tazz. Do tell.