Religion

[tater]

When I think of cremation, I think about the Second Coming of Christ. As a christian, I also do not know anywhere in the Bible where it says it is wrong to burn a body. I do know scripture that talks about when Christ Returns for his Church, that the sea will give up the dead and a couple other examples as to what we can expect to see, god willing, if we are alive at his coming. Further, I think about all the people who have been killed in wars or like at the World Trade Center Bombing, when bodies were just vaporized, I see know differece in that than a person choosing to be cremated. Those that are dead shall rise first to meet our lord in the air, then those of us who are "saved" will then be raptured. I think some christians don't choose cremation for just that purpose, they want a "full body" to be raptured when Christ returns, however, we could go on and take this further and talk about being given our "glorified body", once we are raptured. I think that will be when our lord takes christians and regardless of the shape of their body, whether it is just in particles of sand and turned to dust or disolved in the deepest sea, my God who created the universe, can surely put us back together and we will be givien a "glorified body". To me this is very exciting. Do many of you think of heaven as much as I do? Heaven is real and it will be a wonderful place where we can spend eternity. Well, I have said enough. BTW, me and Mrs. Tater got back tonight from taking our son to louisville, Ky to begin seminary at Southern Semninary. It snowed tuesday night and everything was very beautiful. I know people there had to know I was from florida, becuase I was taking so many pic's of the snow.... Have a great week---Tater

[knuckledragger]

The popular conception of heaven is, once you get there, you'll be re-united with loved ones. My question is this: once you reach heaven what makes you think the ones YOU love will want to be around YOU? lol. All writings suggest once you croak, we will not know eachother. Hence my belief in just plain returning to the "force" from whence you came.

[deadlylips69]

i agree with knuckledragger...but when you are told that the "after life" is to be full of love and no more fighting or bs..the question there is why wouldn't they want to be around you? and who knows do you ? do i ? nope.. you know i been reading this for a few days now very smart people..i agree with alot and there are some i don't..but i think when u go to heaven ( if there is a heaven) then its what you want it to be ...but i don't believe there is a heaven or a hell to be honest

[knuckledragger]

You know, it just occurred to me, the word "heaven" is often misused to describe Nirvana, Eden, Paradise, etc..In the course of translations from Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, Latin, all the way up to English, the word heaven doesn't really mean paradise. What it means is the sky. So where do we REALLY get this perception of "heaven" (paradise) being above? Think about it, as many times as the Bible has been translated seems rather odd that the word heaven actually means the sky, and yet we associate it with paradise.

[Tazz]

I think heaven will be a new "Jerusalem", just as the Bible says. There are many references to heaven in the Bible.

I am certain that the streets will be gold, but I am pretty sure they will be chocolate covered! ;D

[knuckledragger]

Sorry, but the references to heaven in the bible doesnt cut it. Like I said, it's been translated from many languages.

[grouchymom]

Heaven is God's dimension of the created order (Genesis 1:1; Psalm 115:16; Matt 6:9), whereas 'earth' is the world of space, time and matter that we know. 'Heaven' thus sometimes stands, reverentially, for 'God' (as in Matthew's regular 'kingdom of heaven'). Normally hidden from human sight, heaven is occasionally revealed or unveiled so that people can see God's dimension of ordinary life (e.g. 2 Kings 6:17; Rev 1:4-5). Heaven in the New Testament is thus not usually seen as the place where God's people go after death; at the end, the New Jerusalem descends from heaven to earth, joining the two dimensions for ever. 'Entering the kingdom of heaven' does not mean 'going to heaven after death', but belonging in the present to the people who steer their earthly course by the standards and purposes of heaven (cf. the Lord's Prayer: 'on earth as in heaven", Matt 6:10), and who are assured of membership in the age to come.

[Tazz]

Very well put Grouchymom! The "New Jerusalem" will not materialize until after the second coming. And to tell you the truth, I really don't care where it is at all. After I am dead, I'll will go wherever He send me. (Wherever that is).

[knuckledragger]

LOL! Again, one can not go by the Bible to define heaven. Find the orgin of the word and the original meaning and you will see this. Remember, keep into consideration how many times the Bible has been translated and I promise all out there, that heaven is not the proverbial paradise that has been accepted. It is merely a word that was taken from the original meaning of sky, to mean paradise. Hmmm....maybe I need to try to make my point clearer, but I can't.

[grouchymom]

Okay, Knuck, how about this? I love this thread because it makes me THINK, research and read!!!!

All these clouds, whirlwinds, pillars, vessels, chariots and pavilions are seen hovering in, coming down from or rising into heaven. The thunders, trumpets and voices that are heard are heard from heaven. All the men who leave the ground and all the angels and metallic, glowing beings that come down to the ground do so either to, or from, heaven. All the lightnings, streams of fire, brimstone and other destructive things mentioned have their origin in heaven. Even wars are fought in heaven. Since all these things are seen in relationship to heaven, the way the word ‘heaven’ is used is the key to understanding these phenomenon and must be explained. The word heaven is used over 500 times in the Bible. In the Old Testament ‘heaven’ is translated almost exclusively from two different words. The Hebrew word 'shamayim' which is defined as ‘the sky', the place where the clouds and stars are, or 'shamayin', the Aramaic word of the same definition.

In the Old Testament ‘heaven’ is translated from other words only five times in the following verses:
Psalms 68:4 it is translated from the Hebrew, arabah, ‘ the desert ‘
77:18 the word is galgal, Hebrew for ‘ wheel or whirlwind '
89:6 & 37 where it is translated from the word shachaq, Hebrew for ‘ powder or thin vapor ’.
Isaiah 5:30 heaven is translated from ariyph, Hebrew for ‘ the sky ‘

The New Testament defines ‘heaven’ from the Greek word ‘ouranos’ meaning ‘the sky’ in all but 7 instances :
Philippians 2:10 Greek epouranos, ‘ above the sky, celestial ‘
Revelation 8:13, 14:6, 19:1, 11, 14, and 17 from the Greek word mesouranema, meaning mid-sky

The infrequency of the word ‘sky‘ in the Bible must also be looked at. The words sky or skies only appear 11 times in all 66 books. The words for things that normally appear in the sky such as clouds, stars, whirlwinds, storms, lightning, birds, rain, hail and wind appear over 600 times. Heaven is the word the translators of the King James Bible in the early 1600's purposefully translated into the original words biblical authors used for the physical sky and not some ethereal plane. The King James Bible was translated for King James of England who lived in a royal castle, surrounded by royal people, all speaking a royal language; a very proper form of court English.The Court English employed entirely different words to describe things, thus,confusing the commoners as to the meaning of certain words. You was thee, raiment was clothing and sky was heaven. Therefore, in all but the above noted instances, the word heaven should be read as sky. Heaven is the sky and sky fits in every instance. Heaven is not the place with the 'pearly gates' or the 'streets of gold ' as the pulpit would have you believe. That is the new Jerusalem and is described in Revelation. Heaven is not said to be a reward for paying your tithes or a final destination for certain church members. Heaven is where God flies, the same place the birds fly. Heaven is where God lives because that is where his throne is and his throne flies. And if any more proof is needed just consider the inheritance of the beatitudes. "The meek shall inherit the Earth", not heaven. The heaven of the pulpit is a simplistic, human conceptualization not a Biblically based reality.

[Tazz]

Good grief Grouchymom! Sounds like you definitely "ate" your Wheaties this morning.

[grouchymom]

It's the coffee!!!

[grouchymom]

Just for giggles and grins and to make the truly religious, God-fearing, go-to-chuch-every-time the-door-is-open people jump in with comments consider the following quote from above and check out this analysis:

"Metallic glowing beings" - "Vessels, Chariots and pavillions". Could they have witnessed and been talking about vehicles from another world. Could they have been talking abut beings from another world. Could that be the "intelligence" current bible thumpers are trying to push into the schools as intelligent design, not realizing their God might be simply a far greater and older intelligence than our own?

[livetoride]

OK Grouchymom...it's early on a Saturday morning and you've already given me a headache!

Where do you find this stuff?? In 23 years the only time you've set foot in a church has been for a marryin' or a buryin'.

I've seen your bookshelves and there ain't a religious or philosophical book on them. Only thing I can figure is God truly has reached down and touched you and you are now speaking in tongues.

Think I'll stick with the "ET phone home" point of view.

Now I'm going to go get two Excedrin and another cup of coffee - or maybe a shot of vodka.

[grouchymom]

Since you apparently can't read, next time you breeze through my house check out my bookshelves!!