|
Post by lawton on Apr 14, 2013 13:58:33 GMT -5
Show me one news article or one video Drauka where prior to the initial Senate budget coming out the Teamsters were pressing for compression raises for us (not just in meaningless collective bargaining meeting statements/releases) and not just pushing that 7% fantasy bill that had almost zero chance. I can show you a bunch where the PBA was for their officers.
|
|
|
Post by Drauka on Apr 14, 2013 14:16:43 GMT -5
Well fine, its the PBA's fault. They left us out in the cold. Blame them, they stink blah blah blah. Hate on them, PBA rabble rabble rabble! Yep blah blah blah - its only in the update on their website. Facts hurt don't they but facts like this show just how pathetic the Teamsters lobbyists and agents are as far as DOC goes. Like they say - results matter and with things like this out here showing how inept they are. Its too bad people like you buy into their bs - hey the PBA is the reason DOC is screwed this year - FHP got 5% when you had PBA - how pathetic the Teamsters are. All that said I still hope we pull the raise despite their joke representation. You mean facts like they got raises and we didnt? Yeah those facts hurt.
|
|
|
Post by lawton on Apr 14, 2013 20:06:40 GMT -5
Yep blah blah blah - its only in the update on their website. Facts hurt don't they but facts like this show just how pathetic the Teamsters lobbyists and agents are as far as DOC goes. Like they say - results matter and with things like this out here showing how inept they are. Its too bad people like you buy into their bs - hey the PBA is the reason DOC is screwed this year - FHP got 5% when you had PBA - how pathetic the Teamsters are. All that said I still hope we pull the raise despite their joke representation. You mean facts like they got raises and we didnt? Yeah those facts hurt. Exactly - Reality sucks for us...
|
|
|
Post by lawton on Apr 14, 2013 20:41:54 GMT -5
In the good budget years where they didn't have nearly the extra for reserves like they do this year we got compression raises just like the other PBA Officers and we got a true raise with the other PBA people one year when all other state employees got a bonus not a true raise so those arguments hold no water and are just the business agents of the Teamsters trying to keep DOC in tow. FDLE and the other state LEO PBA Officers didnt get anything that year FHP got that in a super tight budget year as that was Rubio's thing mostly. The point I make is that when we get a raise, all the other LEO groups also get one, but the reverse is not true. Other LEO groups, FHP and FWC get a raises when we get none. This was true under the PBA, and could still be true under Teamsters. It's not the CBA's fault either. It's ours. If you cant see that, then you are exactly as blind as the Senate wants you to be. Of course they want dues money coming in, so did the PBA. That's how they pay for their campaigns. Are you so naive that you think the Business agents, lawyers and lobbyists should fight for us for free, out of some sense of duty?? People ardently refuse to join, and yet still demand that they get the goods and services of a Union. They still demand the ability to say how the Union should be run. This is the mentality that's going to kill us, not some fine point in our lobbying strategies. Right now we aren't paying for squat. Our 3800± members are putting about $115K a month into the coffers, out of which comes pay for all the Business agents (5 of them), Lobbyists, lawyers, and their overhead expenses like office space to work in and mundane materials like paper, pencils, staples and tape, not to mention rental cars when they drive to Tally, food, lodging and all that for while they are there. We are using National money to fund us right now, and will until we have more than 40% membership. Until we have that or more, you wont see full page ads in the paper, or billboards raising public awareness, or anything like that. We barely have enough money coming in to fund whats being done. The same happened to the PBA, that's why we stopped seeing the things we saw in the mid 90's and why they really didnt fight all that hard to keep us. They are likely glad we're gone to be honest. The House and Senate wants us blaming our CBA instead of them because it keeps us weak. We should NOT be trying to appease them with money and a$$kissing, we should be bludgeoning them with our votes and our families votes. We should be slamming home the fact that every time they act against us, there will be political repercussions. They can, and will, continue to smack us around until we step up and demand better. Truth is, if we showed them over and over that if they treat us unfairly they get kicked out the next election cycles, they'd start to tow the line pretty quickly. They know most of us are far too selfish to do whats necessary. As a result, we get what we get: crumbs. All that being said Evers got this being talked about very late and there is a chance to still get us something extra like the PBA people but it shouldn't have came to this when you have that much extra in the budget. If we dont get it they need to go plain and simple as they are affecting our pay now. Again. extra in the budget to them is extra they can put to work in their districts. Prisons are NOT popular, since the public doesn't ever even think about us except briefly as they drive by one. No matter how early or how loudly we holler at them, they will not give us anything more than scraps until we demand better by our voting power. If the Teamsters go, who will take us next? I haven't seen the PBA outside our institutions handing out blue cards to get us back...have you? its been well over a year since they lost us. Doesnt really matter who takes us next, or if we keep the largest labor organization in the country, if we don't start to take control of our own fates on a large scale. I have a prediction: We wont get the step raises, and people will drum up anger against the Teamsters that we 'only' got 3% as our first raise since 2006. People will continue to be either apathetic or outright hostile towards the Union and either the Teamsters will drop us due to lack of interest by employees or they'll take a backseat like the PBA did and let fate run its course as they use what little dues money we generate to fund locals that actually give a $#!7 about themselves. After a year or three of small or no raises, we'll push for a new CBA and the cycle will repeat itself ad-infinitum. I just hope the cycle doesn't tail-spin us into privatization before I'm ready to retire. After that, this younger generation that wants things spoon fed to them with no effort expended or risks taken on their part can reap the whirlwind. The Teamsters are a joke period just like their results so far this session. Hopefully we can still pull the compression raises despite this joke of a union.
|
|
|
Post by lawton on Apr 14, 2013 20:59:38 GMT -5
The Teamsters are a joke period just like their results so far this session. Hopefully we can still pull the compression raises despite this joke of a union. Have fun with your obvious trolling. Trolling - look at the facts and there is nothing else to say. They are a joke so far and you are too if you support them.. Thanks for screwing us out of an extra raise as of now...
|
|
|
Post by Drauka on Apr 14, 2013 21:00:42 GMT -5
Have fun with your obvious trolling. Trolling - look at the facts and there is nothing else to say. They are a joke so far and you are too if you support them.. Thanks for screwing us out of an extra raise as of now... You're welcome.
|
|
|
Post by lawton on Apr 15, 2013 17:55:16 GMT -5
Teamsters related - Pay Raise Issue.
Well I got a slight ray of hope today on the pay raise issue as I am in Sen Negron's district and stated that in my e-mail to him and he gave me a personal reply instead of the canned response I got from Sen Gaetz and some others.
He basically said he likes hearing from his constituents on issues and I made some good points and he will discuss the pay raise disparity issue in negotiations at conference. He definately was not promising anything however.
If any of you are in his district let him know that in the e-mail. Maybe using the word constituent gets it actually to him or they are checking the IP address maybe for location. When contacting your own legislator it would probably be a good idea also.
|
|
|
Post by 2ndtimearound on Apr 16, 2013 19:07:42 GMT -5
Drauka I told you a long time ago that it was going to be exactly like it was under the PBA. Non-members complaining about no raises but not stepping up and providing what is needed and that of course is membership. and they will keep right on doing it like they did under the PBA. yes I know I BMG about the Teamsters National issues but that does not mean I am stupid enough to not understand what is actually happening. Yes the teamsters are in a pickle. That being weak membership, and not being the powers that be's favorite group in the state. So that means this, for the rest of the COs out there. You people want a raise? then get with the program the Teamsters need numbers to actually get the attention of the Legislature. I'll try ti logically. IF you have a group of 17,00 people and only 1% of them (170) are within the collective bargaining unit's membership, how well would YOU treat the group of 17,000? Now I pulled the numbers out of thin air to make it easier to understand for everyone. so do not get all up in arms over my numbers. Just think about the situation overall IF you were at the negotiation table. for those who can only think of it from a correctional setting. IF you have one inmate attempting to incite a riot it is far easier to contain it IF he is the only one. IF the numbers change enough you figure out a way to regain control other than negotiating. Right? You get more help. The Teamsters need more help. All that being said, has no bearing on my opinion of the Teamsters at a national level though.
|
|
|
Post by lawton on Apr 16, 2013 19:22:45 GMT -5
Drauka I told you a long time ago that it was going to be exactly like it was under the PBA. Non-members complaining about no raises but not stepping up and providing what is needed and that of course is membership. and they will keep right on doing it like they did under the PBA. yes I know I BMG about the Teamsters National issues but that does not mean I am stupid enough to not understand what is actually happening. Yes the teamsters are in a pickle. That being weak membership, and not being the powers that be's favorite group in the state. So that means this, for the rest of the COs out there. You people want a raise? then get with the program the Teamsters need numbers to actually get the attention of the Legislature. I'll try ti logically. IF you have a group of 17,00 people and only 1% of them (170) are within the collective bargaining unit's membership, how well would YOU treat the group of 17,000? Now I pulled the numbers out of thin air to make it easier to understand for everyone. so do not get all up in arms over my numbers. Just think about the situation overall IF you were at the negotiation table. for those who can only think of it from a correctional setting. IF you have one inmate attempting to incite a riot it is far easier to contain it IF he is the only one. IF the numbers change enough you figure out a way to regain control other than negotiating. Right? You get more help. The Teamsters need more help. All that being said, has no bearing on my opinion of the Teamsters at a national level though. We have more dues coming in than the PBA does for their State people so that argument is a joke imo. I stayed PBA mainly for competent legal seeing some results with fellow officers in a bind and because I figured the Teamsters didn't have a clue with the FL Legislature and might actually be seen in a bad light particularly. Our problem is the Teamster business agents and lobbyists are either inept and were just after some dues. Just look at their actions. The PBA lobbyists weren't naive enough to push some 7% bill for all state employees and instead were securing compression raises for their officers in the initial budgets knowing that is what they will do possibly in good budget years. The Teamsters agents just said we are working hard to correct this injustice after the fact due to their ineptness. I knew they were a total joke when around election time they filed that joke lawsuit about getting overtime for gettiing equipment time prior to your shift as that was already settled law in FL and they were just trying to sucker officers for dues. They are a joke plain and simple. Hopefully we can overcome them and get this extra raise also however.
|
|
|
Post by 2ndtimearound on Apr 16, 2013 21:08:47 GMT -5
How is it a joke? My observations are not about the amount of dues. My observations are about say it with me, MEMBERSHIP numbers. The numbers are simply not there and in reality they were really not there when PBA had the contract. as for the lobbyists being inept that has merit. They also do not have any political clout with the Legislature. Remember the Republicants are in charge not the Demewonts. And the Teamsters chose the current losers in the electoral scheme. As for circumventing the collective bargaining process. Good Luck. BUT I bet you can't put together 100 staff members to go to Tallahassee to help out with a protest. All I hear all of the time is , "I am too broke to pay more money for dues.". or "I need to go to the pawn shop so I can get 50 bucks for gas this week." I seriously doubt they will drop fuel out of pocket to go to a political protest. Even back in the original rally in Tally (which PBA told us would never work) it was tough to get that accomplished throughout the old region 1.
|
|
|
Post by lawton on Apr 16, 2013 21:22:36 GMT -5
How is it a joke? My observations are not about the amount of dues. My observations are about say it with me, MEMBERSHIP numbers. The numbers are simply not there and in reality they were really not there when PBA had the contract. as for the lobbyists being inept that has merit. They also do not have any political clout with the Legislature. Remember the Republicants are in charge not the Demewonts. And the Teamsters chose the current losers in the electoral scheme. As for circumventing the collective bargaining process. Good Luck. BUT I bet you can't put together 100 staff members to go to Tallahassee to help out with a protest. All I hear all of the time is , "I am too broke to pay more money for dues.". or "I need to go to the pawn shop so I can get 50 bucks for gas this week." I seriously doubt they will drop fuel out of pocket to go to a political protest. Even back in the original rally in Tally (which PBA told us would never work) it was tough to get that accomplished throughout the old region 1. Its a joke (not literally) imo because the PBA got extra for their officers in the initial budgets and they have less dues money coming in from their state people than the Teamsters The state has well over a Billion dollars extra and they didn't include the comparitively small 30 million it would have took to give us the same compression raises the PBA people are getting in the initial budgets and will be raising the reserve to almost 3 billion dollars. With much less extra in good budget years we got compression raises with the PBA and we got a true raise when other state employees got a bonus. This is a teamster problem mostly more than a membership one imo. They didn't play the game properly - Imo the PBA in a great budget year like this with all that extra money would have got us compression with even less members than the teamsters have. I still would like to see where the Teamster money went as far as FL legislators etc. go - that might give a clue also. At least the PBA plays both sides depending on who can help them at the time.
|
|
|
Post by Drauka on Apr 17, 2013 7:43:15 GMT -5
All that being said, has no bearing on my opinion of the Teamsters at a national level though. I dont care for 90% of the IBT Nationals message either, but thats fine as long as our Local is working to help MEMBERS that are facing discipline....which they have been actively doing, and very successfully. Its a joke (not literally) imo because the PBA got extra for their officers in the initial budgets and they have less dues money coming in from their state people than the Teamsters The state has well over a Billion dollars extra and they didn't include the comparitively small 30 million it would have took to give us the same compression raises the PBA people are getting in the initial budgets and will be raising the reserve to almost 3 billion dollars. With much less extra in good budget years we got compression raises with the PBA and we got a true raise when other state employees got a bonus. This is a teamster problem mostly more than a membership one imo. They didn't play the game properly - Imo the PBA in a great budget year like this with all that extra money would have got us compression with even less members than the teamsters have. I still would like to see where the Teamster money went as far as FL legislators etc. go - that might give a clue also. At least the PBA plays both sides depending on who can help them at the time. I want to know what makes you think they have less dues money coming in than we do. We only have roughly 3800 members statewide, while they have members in several different branches of law enforcement at a much higher percentage...... even though the total number of employees in each group may be smaller. We have the potential to FAR outnumber them, but we dont. Unless you can quote membership numbers for FDLE, FHP and FWC combined, and their dues rates, you're just making up facts to fit your argument as far as I'm concerned. I'll also say that I know for a fact we were telling them about our retention problems for over a year, and that we were saying that higher base pay would help with that. I also know we were telling them we needed better and more competitive raises. Compression raises specifically likely weren't brought up in the beginning, in that you're probably right, or at least I cant find anything that directly says you're wrong. It's being discussed now though, and since the budget isnt set in stone yet it's still early enough to make a difference. Like I said, the House/Senate is not made up of morons though. They have our retention numbers, they know we are funded for 92% staffing levels and cant even keep that. They know we need the same type of raises that other LEO are getting in order to stabilize our numbers. They know we routinely lose officers to other LE groups because their pay is better. We made that argument under the PBA, and we are still making it. Bottom line, they don't care. They know we don't have the public support other groups have. They know a headline like "Senate cuts prison funding" will never have the public impact that "Senate cuts Highway Patrol funding" would. They know stories in the paper about potential riots in prisons will never cause the public outcry that stories about fewer police officers leading to higher crime rates in their neighborhoods will. Us thinking that anything short of high membership, a unified message AND an improved public image (which the department itself is working on) will ever help is misguided. The problem is definitely a membership AND unity issue...same as it was under PBA. Looking at the past through rose colored glasses wont change the fact that we were routinely screwed under them too, except for a very short period in the mid 90's. We had a pretty decent economy in the late 80's and early 90's during the dotcom boom, and still didn't get any raises when the FHP always did...and the PBA was covering all of us then too. Doesn't matter which legislators we bribe (which I don't agree with at all) or which legislator we point out the obvious facts to as long as they know we're a house divided against itself with no unified message, direction or public on our side. We'll be their kickball until we get our act together as a whole.
|
|
haze
New Member
Posts: 44
|
Post by haze on Apr 17, 2013 16:45:29 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by lawton on Apr 17, 2013 17:12:23 GMT -5
Its a joke (not literally) imo because the PBA got extra for their officers in the initial budgets and they have less dues money coming in from their state people than the Teamsters The state has well over a Billion dollars extra and they didn't include the comparitively small 30 million it would have took to give us the same compression raises the PBA people are getting in the initial budgets and will be raising the reserve to almost 3 billion dollars. With much less extra in good budget years we got compression raises with the PBA and we got a true raise when other state employees got a bonus. This is a teamster problem mostly more than a membership one imo. They didn't play the game properly - Imo the PBA in a great budget year like this with all that extra money would have got us compression with even less members than the teamsters have. I still would like to see where the Teamster money went as far as FL legislators etc. go - that might give a clue also. At least the PBA plays both sides depending on who can help them at the time. I want to know what makes you think they have less dues money coming in than we do. We only have roughly 3800 members statewide, while they have members in several different branches of law enforcement at a much higher percentage...... even though the total number of employees in each group may be smaller. We have the potential to FAR outnumber them, but we dont. Unless you can quote membership numbers for FDLE, FHP and FWC combined, and their dues rates, you're just making up facts to fit your argument as far as I'm concerned. I'll also say that I know for a fact we were telling them about our retention problems for over a year, and that we were saying that higher base pay would help with that. I also know we were telling them we needed better and more competitive raises. Compression raises specifically likely weren't brought up in the beginning, in that you're probably right, or at least I cant find anything that directly says you're wrong. It's being discussed now though, and since the budget isnt set in stone yet it's still early enough to make a difference. Like I said, the House/Senate is not made up of morons though. They have our retention numbers, they know we are funded for 92% staffing levels and cant even keep that. They know we need the same type of raises that other LEO are getting in order to stabilize our numbers. They know we routinely lose officers to other LE groups because their pay is better. We made that argument under the PBA, and we are still making it. Bottom line, they don't care. They know we don't have the public support other groups have. They know a headline like "Senate cuts prison funding" will never have the public impact that "Senate cuts Highway Patrol funding" would. They know stories in the paper about potential riots in prisons will never cause the public outcry that stories about fewer police officers leading to higher crime rates in their neighborhoods will. Us thinking that anything short of high membership, a unified message AND an improved public image (which the department itself is working on) will ever help is misguided. The problem is definitely a membership AND unity issue...same as it was under PBA. Looking at the past through rose colored glasses wont change the fact that we were routinely screwed under them too, except for a very short period in the mid 90's. We had a pretty decent economy in the late 80's and early 90's during the dotcom boom, and still didn't get any raises when the FHP always did...and the PBA was covering all of us then too. Doesn't matter which legislators we bribe (which I don't agree with at all) or which legislator we point out the obvious facts to as long as they know we're a house divided against itself with no unified message, direction or public on our side. We'll be their kickball until we get our act together as a whole. We got extra compression raises under the PBA of 2% and 3% I remember getting before the economy crashed and PBA got their officers - us included a real raise when other state employees just got a one time bonus and not a raise one year. There is well over a billion dollars going into reserves not being used to bring it to almost 3 billion dollars and the Teamsters couldn't even get them to use the 30 million to give us the same compression raises in the initial budgets ? What does that tell you ? Teamster Membership numbers is not our problem this year their ineffective representation is. I am 99.9% sure we have more dues coming in than PBA does for their State Officers. Just look at the numbers of Officers regardless of a higher % of membership in the PBA State Officers. PBA made huge cutbacks when they lost us. Doesn't matter how much you tell them the retention problems when we have the Teamsters business agents/lobbyists not doing what they have to do to get us extra. What do those idiots do - they focus on a 7% fantasy bill for all state employees that never really had any chance to pass instead of working behind the scenes to secure us compression raises like the PBA was openly telling their Officers they were doing weeks before the initial budget was released. Those collective bargaining meetings dont get seniority raises - the main players get it in the budgets. The Teamsters (business agents on up) are a disgrace imo with how they pushed all their lies like conning people in the parking lots that they would get them overtime for time getting their equipment before a shift filing that frivelous lawsuit to push themselves on us in the news knowing that was settled case law for FL already and now telling people to blame the PBA basically if we don't get the compression raises. As long as we have them and how they spend the dues we will always be no better than the average state employee in the line to get anything extra most likely. That is reality probably but like I have said I hope besides their joke representation we can still pull the same compression raise as the PBA people. If not I hope they are ousted as quickly as possible because their results will have sucked big time in a good budget year like this.What are the Teamsters doing with the DOC dues money ? - ask them to show you who got what in the FL Legislature and that is probably a big part of the problem also. At least the PBA knows how to play the game a little no matter who is running things and tries to get extra for their people with the dues money.
|
|
|
Post by Drauka on Apr 17, 2013 18:53:02 GMT -5
Not at my institution. I've been a part of 4 PDC's, 3 asking for 30 days and one asking for 80hrs. Got 3 of them reduced to a written reprimand and one thrown completely out. Each person was guilty as guilty can be too. Maybe at your camp the Stewards are crappy, but thats because no one better is stepping up. If you know policy so well, why not step up and do something helpful.
|
|