P.B.A.

[slipknot14]

madsarge said:

Has anyone here heard of "legal insurance?" I have a friend that sells it in the parking lot of our institution for, and don't qoute me, less than $10 a month. This stuff is selling like wildfire spreads! What this buys you is legal counsel (a lawyer) in case you need it (and from what I understand it is for any reason other than traffic and divorce.) This isn't one of those ads or anything, I just wanted to point out that legal protection on a monthly pay plan is alot less expensive than PBA (if that's all the are good for!)

I have heard of it. Usually these have caps on spending. Lawyers I am sure, depending on the case, will go through the limits rather quickly. On the other hand, how much did the PBA spend on the officers on trial for Valdez? I can't remember the figure I had heard but it was a large sum.

[sweetbabycorn]

slipknot14 said:

sweetbabycorn said:

The PBA is a waste of $24 a month or whatever it is now. The way I see it, I don't plan on screwing up, therefore I won't need their services. For the money spent monthly padding their fat pockets, I can put it away in a rainy day account and actually have something to show for it one day. All the PBA does is assist those who are F$ck-ups resign quietly and relinquish their standards for their wrong doings without being charged criminally. I'm sure Crosby, AC, and Richie have those high priced "lawyers" working overtime, scrambling for loopholes. It's the least they can do for pressuring folks into signing up and supporting "causes" that the PBA and Uncle Jeb have an interest in.
And of course they're gonna lobby for us pay raises, that insures they get their money every month.

The P.B.A. represents Captains and below. So don't worry to much about them helping Crosby. Its pretty inane to even suggest that.


As for not planning on screwing up, congratulations. Some how I doubt that makes you immune to the random and unexpected thing called life in the Department of Corrections. Familiar with the expression #$%^ rolls down hill? Plan all you want. Follow the rules to the letter. But believe me if someone wants to shift blame or something happens where blame is needed and you just happened to be around, planning on not screwing up you just might need the P.B.A. I have seen excellent staff members who do their jobs right, being read their rights and sweating it out for months. For something they did not do. Why? Because DOC just didn't believe them, they needed a scapegoat and oh because an inmate said it happened!


Have you noticed, that in the last few years our raises were higher then the average state worker? Jeb Bush proposed a 2% raise for everyone but some law enforcement agencies this year . We were not one of them. Should we be happy with that? Not lobby?



I am still waiting for all the non union members to stand up and take charge! Demand that you not be grouped in with the P.B.A. When they lobby for raises they are not speaking for you! And when and if we get a pay raise, you refuse it! Your not a member! The PBA sucks! Your principle demands that you refuse the raises so as not to be associated with that corrupt good for nothing union!
LOL I won't hold my breath.

As far as the PBA not helping out Crosby, geeze Beave, I didn't even think about him being above the rank of Captain. DUH!! Come on, of course they're gonna help him out, even if it's on the sly. He was only their friggin poster boy for how long? It's the back scratch approach. Crosby influenced who knows how many officers to join by having such an intimate relationship with the PBA, and I'm sure in turn he received some sort of kickback from them.

As for the Poop rolling down hill expression... I am all too familiar with this term, and have found myself at the bottom countless times. I personally don't feel the need to have them as a legal "insurance policy". I appreciate your views and you make some good points, but moreover I appreciate the raises that you and your PBA "got" me. I'm sure I'm not deserving of such because I don't pay dues, despite the fact that I work hard , strive to do 110%,and am always at work. I'll be sure to tell those at work that are members but do absolutely nothing but stir the pot and F-off for 8 a day (if they show up at all) that they are more deserving of a raise than me and are getting their money's worth from the PBA.

[77]

Can anyone here testify to what the pay was like before the PBA?


I dont know what the pay was before PBA, but I do know that when I started in '96 I was only making 19k a year ... now I make 32k ... 13k worth of raises in 10 years is pretty good imo.

[corroffsgt]

The Valdez case the PBA spent 1.5 million. My pay, when we voted in the PBA ,was $9,800.00 per year in 1984 .And you are nuts if you think the PBA is going to spend any money to defend Crosby. As far as helping AC, he tried and worked for FOP to make them our bargaining unit.The PBA won't help him.

[gel]

I know I started out at 16 something in the late 80's I have been promoted and still don't make 40. I can go to a local county and start over at 40 without puting my training certification on the table or education all of which they pay extra for. The kicker is they pay overtime if you work it. In recent time they raised the price of the single officer quarters by about I think it was 40 a pay period not sure on the amount trailer pads from 1.00 something to 25 biweekly. Still not bad rates in anyones book. However when questioned about the increase it was stated that since the prices were set inflation has gone up 400%. My wages have not and neither have any of the other lowere echelon staff.

[rwfc]

From a business standpoint, no one in security is paid near what they should be. A CEO or President of a company makes way more than a Warden, yet the responibilities of the job are very similar. Think about it.... a company with 300+ employees, daily running of 2 or more locations, and all of the maintenance, medical, educational, budgeting, etc., etc. Do you know of any private sector business owner, manager, asst. manager, supervisor that does all that a "manager" within the DOC does, for that kind of pay (or lack thereof)? Now add the danger of our business, after all, this isn't McDonalds, and do any of us REALLY get paid enough?!? I know to line staff making the (lower end) of the pay scale, a warden / asst. warden's pay looks good, but come on, for the workload, it's no where close to enough. Sure, there's some that never show-up and do their rightful share of the work, but that holds true everywhere. Honestly, I may be living lucky, but in over 20 years in the DOC, I've not met an upper level supervisor that was paid TOO much for his efforts. Sorry, but I get tired of the bashing the upper administrators get on this board sometimes. So, the bottom line is, when are we going to get it together and let our bargaining unit know we mean business? PBA's been in a long time....maybe it's time for a big change. Sorry for the rambling.....

[77]

Thats not rambling, thats speaking your mind ... If a serious contender was to step in against PBA and make a serious push for our representation I believe you would see changes made on the Union front.


Sad thing is that every time a Union steps up to try to come in PBA goes on a string of attempts to finally do something for us, like passing out free pencils, notepads, hats, and lapels.

[sweetbabycorn]

slipknot14 said:

madsarge said:

Has anyone here heard of "legal insurance?" I have a friend that sells it in the parking lot of our institution for, and don't qoute me, less than $10 a month. This stuff is selling like wildfire spreads! What this buys you is legal counsel (a lawyer) in case you need it (and from what I understand it is for any reason other than traffic and divorce.) This isn't one of those ads or anything, I just wanted to point out that legal protection on a monthly pay plan is alot less expensive than PBA (if that's all the are good for!)

I have heard of it. Usually these have caps on spending. Lawyers I am sure, depending on the case, will go through the limits rather quickly. On the other hand, how much did the PBA spend on the officers on trial for Valdez? I can't remember the figure I had heard but it was a large sum.

Hmmmm....Thanks for bringing that up Slipknot, I had almost forgotten about the history there linking the PBA and Crosby!
"Crosby had worked his way up through the prison system, starting in 1975. During his tenure as warden of Florida State Prison, he was under the spotlight when guards were accused of beating prisoner Frank Valdes to death."
Some of the officers involved in the above fiasco are directly related to the mess Crosby's in now.

[corroffsgt]

How can you link that incident to Crosby and the PBA? Crosby and his few trash, the Officers that were accused, staff housing homes and put thier property out in the dumpster. He thought they were guilty.

[panzer]

I have very little confidence in the P.B.A., but I pay the dues just in case. What everyone must understand is that the P.B.A. is like an insurance company, you pay the rates for years without making a claim. Then one day you have to call them and that is when you find out just how good the coverage is or isn't. The P.B.A. is like any government agency, full of politicians. They tell you how good they are and how much they can do for you, but you never really know until your butt is on the line. Of course by that time if the coverage isn't worth a s**t, it's a little too late.

[WE BE EATING CAT FOOD!!!!!!!!!]

Every time we take the blue cards to a vote, the PBA works its ass off to get us something. Before I vote for a new Gov, I want to hear and see something in writing from him about doing something for us. F*ck the PBA and their endorsement. What does charlie have to say about getting us a living wage.

Jimmy Biardi, our, OUR, union presedent spends him time going around kissing ass and using his PBA credit card to buy lunch. The way I see it, the union is supposed to be advisarial towards the management/owners of the people they represent. I want to see the the credit card reciepts of where jimmy was buying drinks. Was he sitting in that place in tallahassee with crosby and company, buying them drinks with our money.

I also started in 1990 at $16,800. been promoted a few times and do not make 40,000 yet. My counterpart in Illinois makes a minimum 75,000 and in the feds 82,000. And yes that includes coleman, right up the road from sumpter.

Any idiot can drive a yellow truck for DOT and fix pot holes. Think about the investment we make in hiring and training staff. 1 Officer hired. 30,000 salary plus benifets. Almost 500 hours training. Just to give them the basic training required. The 500 hours we spend on the staff member training them.

At the point we are using the officer we have a good $50,000 for the first year.

The newly trained officer turns in his resignation for a 10,000 dollar raise. Of course his moral just jumped, he no longer is eating cat food and can actually feed his family.

And all you ever hear from the administration is "Oh well, we will just hire someone else" and the cycle starts again.

Biardi is a good friend of mine. And I have told him to his face he needs to take a break and let someone else fight the department for us. He has done some good, but I think he has relaxed.

[LockInaSock]

During his tenure as warden of Florida State Prison, he was under the spotlight when guards were accused of beating prisoner Frank Valdes to death.Some of the officers involved in the above fiasco are directly related to the mess Crosby's in now.

At the risk of sounding stupid I do not see how the officers that were involved in the Valdez incident are"directly related to the mess Crosby's in now".

[77]

I dont see it either

[slipknot14]

I will be the first to admit the PBA has issues. I am not the cheerleader that old babycorn makes me out to be. She has said I know little of the politics and that is why I am such a fervent supporter. Sadly that isn't the case. I know more about the politics then I wish to.

Examples were given about the pay in northern states and the federal prison system. While I am envious, these aren't the best comparisons to our pay. Our pay has to be compared to the southern prison systems. Where either unions have not taken hold or the states attitude is "we don't care." Florida is both. Unions in the north have tools that we don't share in the south. Most of them are inter-connected. Displease one and displease them all. Plus they have the hammer. They strike not caring if it is legal or not. Recently the transportation union in New York city went on a short strike. It shut the city down. It was estimated that it cost the city a billion dollars. What is the best way to get a politician's attention? Through their wallet. Think that billion dollar strike got their attention? I believe it did. I am not advocating striking by the way. Just trying to illustrate that what we lack is teeth. Unions in the south beseech the states for living wages and benefits. The states will never give out anything munificently. The "bargaining" that takes place every year is far from it.


UNION: "Can we..."
DMS: "No"
UNION : "How about..."
DMS: "No"
Union: "We want...."
DMS: "No"
Union : " Hell you got to give us something!"
DMS : " Lets see. We are putting 7 billion in the rainy day fund. Another several hundred million on new private companies to replace some more state employees. Umm let us sharpen our pencil. Ok we have decided. 2.34343434% raise."
Union: "Well at least that's something."
Dms: " Yep aren't we great? By the way, we are cutting xxxx amount of positions, outsourcing xxx more and changing the leave rules."
Union : " What! You can't...."
DMS : " Sure we can. Try and stop us. Complain to loudly and we will still do it but your raise goes bye bye."


Now that is a typical bargaining session with the state. It isn't just DOC that has it bad by the way. Some state positions require a degree and pay a dismal $25,000 a year. Now that is a crime for you.

Now how does the PBA fight that? What can they do or say? People are leaving in droves? The state doesn't care.
DOC is being kept alive on a stream of Tea's. They loosed the requirements for them just to avoid doing what is needed to keep seasoned staff. If they ended the authorization for Tea's tomorrow, how many prisons would be shut down? I know mine would.

How is it fixed? What is needed? I don't know. What I do know is bad mouthing the union does not help. The state troopers switched unions not to long ago. The new one promised them the world. Interestingly enough allot now want back in the PBA. The gra*sisn't always greener.

[tomieoo3]

very interesting post slipnot.......i totally agree with you."you wanna payraise.....sure.....btw- forgot to mention with that your insurance is gonna go up!!!!" i have been a paying memeber since i started & have yet to use them. i have contacted them about a few things only to be told "we dont deal with stuff like that". im hoping that if i really need them that they remember who their dues come from.