Religion

[Tazz]

You don't amaze me Grouchymom; you frickin' scare me!

[knuckledragger]

Good job GM. I like to ask people things and kinda have them figure it out on their own. Most of the time they already know and don't realize they know. Keeps em interested. Legs kinda touched on something I wanted to know more about. The concept of a Familiar, or Guardian Angel. And if ones pet returns to God, or Heaven, whatever you want to call it. The reason I am curious is because I was reading through these pages and we kinda got on a the subject of angels and if animals go to Heaven. Made me remember about a story I saw on T.V. about such things. This old lady was dying, and apparently she had a vision of a cat that died years before that she loved, coming to get her(figures, old lady and cats,lol). She had told her daughter of this event very briefly and the daughter knew it wouldn't be much longer. The daughter apparently told the old lady next time you see the cat, just go. So, the question is, who or what was the "cat"? Was it Saint Kitty coming down for the old lady? Was it an angel? Was it kitty? Or was it bullshit? I'm inclined to believe that animals do have a soul and are a very good judge of character. Maybe thats why Fido and Fluffy don't like me too much, lol. Anyway, I believe the story to be true that a beloved pet (friend) from years ago came and got the old lady. What are ya'lls thoughts on guardian angels and pets with souls? AND, at times, could they be one in the same??

[deadlylips69]

i believe there is a spiritual guide but i do not believe in guardian angels there is a deference to me...spiritual guide to me are real i believe that the guardian angel thing is just a made up story...i think people deal with someones death by saying that an animal or an other person acts like someone who died as if they where reincarnated..i do believe in being reincarnated i mean why not?and why can't our animals have souls? i like to think of my cat as my own kid she eats and breaths she meows she walks...

[grouchymom]

Using logic, we know that God is infinitely loving and merciful, but we also know that God is infinitely intelligent and absolutely perfect. So God does not make mistakes, in His creation, or in His will. Therefore, it is only logical that since God created animals who are lovable, and since God is lovable, we can say that animals have something of goodness (Godness) in them? If so, then aren't they entitled to the same rewards we are entitled to for exhibiting the same kind of Godness? One can argue more for animals going to Heaven than humans because we see nothing but goodness in them, whereas, in human beings, we see them driving recklessly, not caring about others, and dissipating their spiritual energies with no regard for the Person Who bestowed those energies upon them and the spiritual gifts that go with them. We can also use the arguments presented by the great theologians such as Thomas Aquinas who differentiated between the human, animal, and vegetative souls.

Using the Bible, we can refer to the following passages:

Genesis - 9:5: "For your own lifeblood, too, I will demand an accounting: from every animal I will demand it, and from man in regard to his fellow man I will demand an accounting for human life."

Luke - 12:6 "Are not five sparrows sold for two small coins? Yet not one of them has escaped the notice of God."

Ecclesiastes - 3:19: "For the lot of man and of beast is one lot; the one dies as well as the other. Both have the same life-breath, and man has no advantage over the beast; but all is vanity. Both go to the same place; both were made from the dust, and to the dust they both return."

The problem most people have today is that they live under a misguided conception carried over from the Old Testament that animals are to serve us and that we have dominion over the earth, that we are to use everything to satisfy our needs only. I say that it is a misguided conception because of the desecration that has permeated the earth and God's creatures under the guise that God gave us dominion over everything and everything we do is OK. Yet, there is God's justice that demands we use the earth and the creatures upon it, for the purposes for which He created them. There is a purpose for everything that God created, creatures (man, animals, birds, fishes, etc.), vegetative matter, and mineral matter. All are to be used for the divine purposes for which they were created. All will, according to His designs, share in His infinite and eternal glory. Those who think they know the answers as to why He created kittens as well as elephants and tigers, don't know anything at all, for no one except God knows the mind of God. If you see a creature exhibit love in any form, such as a dog rescuing an infant from drowning, you must assume that God has eternal designs for both the creature and the infant, else we insult God's intellect and His divine mercy and wisdom to assume otherwise, that is, that the dog rescuing an infant will not share in God's eternal love and joy.

Feel comfortable in the knowledge that your pet is sharing God's eternal joy, as do the pets we have all lost through old age or sickness. The God that we worship loves each and every one of His creatures equally, and that means infinitely, and you should not feel embarrassed for missing the love you shared with your pets, while at the same time, you should celebrate the union of your pet's soul with the Creator of all creatures. Our God is a just God.

Wherever our life has led us, we all have a guide, although these may be referred to as Guardian Angels. These Angels will watch over us and try to steer us in the right direction. Perhaps you have had that `gut feeling` that made you do something or not do something, often that is your Guardian Angel lending a hand. It is still up to you to follow or reject those feelings. Many of us will go through life totally unaware of these spirit helpers, often only being to able to listen when tragedy strikes.

As our spirituality increases, for whatever reason, we tend to attract spirit helpers around us. Call them what you wish but they are all the same.

[knuckledragger]

Like I said, I do believe animals have a soul. Although I'm sure somewhere in that piece of shit book (King James) it says they do not have a soul and thus cannot attain the same status as man. Why? Animals don't start wars, they tend not to do "bad" things on purpose, although I've suffered my cats wrath a few times, lol. I understand we have the gift of "free will" and that may explain alot. How do we know Rover and Muffin don't hold the keys to the universe? I've often wondered this. I believe every living thing has a soul and is part of God.

[deadlylips69]

to me there is a difference in a guide and an angel to me the guide is someone who you can talk to at anytime and who helps you when need help with what your going threw..angels are to watch over you not do much but watch to me that is how i see things guess it come back to how i was tought..but then some people will say they care connected to there angel and it maybe just that..then again they may just be as one..couldnt they?

can anyone tell me how many angels where women?

[knuckledragger]

O.K. Angels are neither male or female. They are given male names because well, lets face it, the Bible and every book I've ever read on the subject was written by a MAN. Or at least a man was given credit for the work. Angels were the first created. "Man" came LONG after. According to most texts, a human cannot attain the "position" of an angel. There is only one human I can think of off hand that was turned into an angel. His name was Enoch. He was turned into the angel Metatron. Gabriel is sometimes being credited as being female because of a story I posted earlier about this angel visiting a mothers womb and talking to the baby. You'll have to go back and find the post. God's "avenging" angels may appear to be male because males seem to be more intimidating. But, an angel can take any form it needs to accomplish its task. Angels are Gods messengers first and foremost. Destroying a city, or an entire army, (Gabriel and the Syrians. Or Michael and the war in heaven) I guess could be a message of sorts. Why can't humans be angels when they die you might ask? Well, thats a tough one. One explanation is that man may be Gods greatest creation, but he is NOT divine. Therefore he is barred from being part of the Heavenly Host. Why would man be barred? Well, because he is not perfect. Angels are considered to be divine beings and therefore perfect. Or at least as perfect as God allows them to be. Another explanation is, who the hell really knows!

[oldtimer]

you know.......i have watched and read this post since it developed and i have come to the conclusion god has a sense of humor...........reason why:
1. he gave us two hands.....and only one of them work........i guess that is why it feels manly to shake hands..........he has you other good hand. ..u ever tried to wipe your butt with you useless hand.......
2...he gave a woman boobs.......but only gave man nipples............why?
3.he gave man a prostate............and look where he put it.......could there have not been a better place.........and ouch.......to get it checked.
4. he gave us armpits..........could these have not been put in a better place......when we raise our arms.........what do we smell?
to be continued at a later date.........wonder sometimes if god is female?

[grouchymom]

Oldtimer, God can't be female because she wouldn't have given us PMS. Also the perogative to change our mind...maybe God is...maybe God isn't....maybe God is...maybe God isn't...see what I mean!!

[knuckledragger]

God does have a sense of humor if he let someone like me start a thread that is the most popular.

[deadlylips69]

lol grouchymom you know i was about to say the same thing lol why would a women give a women PMS lol..

[knuckledragger]

Legs, you know I'm about as sharp as half melted butter. Is that the same as what the Buddhists believe? Sounds like it. I think I read somewhere that Buddhists say you have as many lives as there are leaves on a tree. And that you will not reach Nirvana until all of those "leaves" on that tree have been lived in a "righteous" manner.

[roadrunner]

I hate that if it is true knuckledragger. I can't get past this life in a righteous manner so does that mean I'm doomed to keep repeating a career in the DC? That IS hell on earth.

[wizardborn1]

Oh Doom, Dispair, it's Agony on me.

Deep dark depression.......excessive misery...

If it weren't for bad luck.......we'd have no luck at all.....

Doom, Dispair.......it's Agony on me.

[roadrunner]

Have not hear those lyrics in years. I thought this thread was supposed to teach me how to get closer to God. Instead, it is depressing me by reminding me how old I am! Why don't we talk about if the great biblical flood and the ark were the real deal or if in fact the Black Sea was once a lake and about 6 - 7 thousand years ago at the end of a mini ice age, snow and ice melt raised sea levels until the Mediterranean overflowed through Turkey and created what we now know as the Blacvk sea. There are those that think the Black Sea was once about 300 feet shallower and remains of apparent buildings have been observed by remote cameras where the lake coast once was. If that is correct, was the Biblical flood really just the Black Sea filling to it's present levels? It is estimated the water level would have gone up at about 6 inches a day. What do you think?