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Post by lawton on Jul 8, 2012 12:16:10 GMT -5
Look at your own link at least the 240 is mentioned thereand look at my post now and there is a link to FHP's most recent impasse contract listed on the state site and the 240 is in there also. The bottom line is the 240 is at least mentioned in PBA's contracts and in your link of changes while its entirely out of the Teamsters proposed contract it appears. That is probably one reason we are being told about using the 240 and other state officers aren't. The state site's impasse contract is outdated (it incorporates the impasse resolutions from 2011, not 2012), just as their contract for the Teamsters is. The link I provided was sent out last month as part of the final proposed contract that was put up for vote by the membership. If the PBA updated their site regularly, I could tell you if it was ratified or not with 100% certainty. They dont even have a copy of it linked directly on their site anymore. The 240 hours is still in the Teamsters ratified contract Article 23 6(B)1 just as it is in the PBA contract Article 18 6(B)1. I see what you are saying now it was just crossed out in the earlier part - Article 23 Section 1 (C) of the section where it was before and is now just mentioned like the impasse stuff in others in section 6. Something fishy is going on here because other state officer agencies are not being told they have to use their 240 first like DC Officers are being told. fdocteamsters.org/sites/fdocteamsters.org/files/7612memoofunderstanding.pdf That is what the state is trying to force on us it appears and just glancing at it - it would appear that special comp would have to be used prior to annual and sick leave just based on the wording in it. Kind of confusing at the end there however.
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Post by lawton on Jul 8, 2012 12:20:53 GMT -5
Some think Scott wants the Special comp down to lower costs because he is going to direct more prisons to be bid out by DC over the next few years in addition to those work release centers.
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Post by lawton on Jul 8, 2012 18:53:01 GMT -5
Some think Scott wants the Special comp down to lower costs because he is going to direct more prisons to be bid out by DC over the next few years in addition to those work release centers. Thats what my thinking is on it. He probably would have moved a lot faster this last time if not for the potential leave payouts for staff in Region 4. Until he's run out of office he's going to keep slamming us again and again until he gets it. I hope the lawyers are able to stop this before it gets too far. Hopefully. This is getting out of hand and he has another 2 years to go. I hope the Dems gain some seats to weaken the hold in the legislature right now also.
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Post by highlander on Jul 18, 2012 9:12:52 GMT -5
;D Well the PBA proposed contracts still have the 240 hours mentioned at least and not totally lined through like our Teamsters proposed contract and we actually got more than most state employees under PBA some years while we have tooken the biggest hits with Teamsters this year - this being another - hopefully their naive reps can get this reversed after getting played by the state for fools it appears. Check your facts. The PBA contract for this year with the FHP has the exact same Special Comp language in it...the exception being that the PBA AGREED to it, while the Teamsters at least fought it. Nice try though. As for us being played for fools, that's at least accurate. The state is treating us like we're all fools by violating the contract language they had forced on us. That's being addressed by our lawyers as we speak. The PBA agreed to the Comp Time issue, and so it didn;t go to impasse. Now that every other LEO agencies has voted no on thie contracts, the PBA has told the state that if they take out the comp time issue, the contract will pass. That is why we are the only agencie being forced to burn our time. Looks like Teamsters are not as smart as you think, and PBA is not as dumb as you think.
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Post by lawton on Jul 18, 2012 16:54:21 GMT -5
Check your facts. The PBA contract for this year with the FHP has the exact same Special Comp language in it...the exception being that the PBA AGREED to it, while the Teamsters at least fought it. Nice try though. As for us being played for fools, that's at least accurate. The state is treating us like we're all fools by violating the contract language they had forced on us. That's being addressed by our lawyers as we speak. The PBA agreed to the Comp Time issue, and so it didn;t go to impasse. Now that every other LEO agencies has voted no on thie contracts, the PBA has told the state that if they take out the comp time issue, the contract will pass. That is why we are the only agencie being forced to burn our time. Looks like Teamsters are not as smart as you think, and PBA is not as dumb as you think. So are we are the only state officers being told we must use the prior to 7/1/12 special comp prior to other leave ? That is a joke if true. I see the work relaese centers are being privatized by DOC decree alone and now Health Care so I guess Scott will just direct DOC to privatize a bunch of prisons next year.
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Post by lawton on Jul 18, 2012 16:55:35 GMT -5
The PBA agreed to the Comp Time issue, and so it didn;t go to impasse. Now that every other LEO agencies has voted no on thie contracts, the PBA has told the state that if they take out the comp time issue, the contract will pass. That is why we are the only agencie being forced to burn our time. Looks like Teamsters are not as smart as you think, and PBA is not as dumb as you think. What are their membership numbers in FDLE/FHP? If they're high enough, they just might get what they're asking for. Good luck to them. If we had the membership numbers under the PBA, they might have been able to do more for us too...the Teamsters still could if the numbers go up. As it is, since very few DOC employees seem to give 2 s***s about what the state is doing, as a result we'll keep getting screwed....no matter who represents us. If this isnt forced on the PBA state officers it tells me all I need to know imo.
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Post by Mr Hat on Jul 19, 2012 8:41:48 GMT -5
In December 2010 an operational audit (1)(2) conducted by the Auditor General found that many State Agencies were failing to control a burgeoning liability to the State’s budget. This debt came in the form of “Special Compensatory Leave Time”. Many previous Audits over the years have previously addressed this same issue. The Department of Corrections was found to have the greatest accumulation of this liability amounting to well over 20 million dollars owed to its 18000 employees.
This “Special Compensation Leave Time” was earned by employees working on Holidays. With Prisons being a 24/7 operation a great deal of time accumulated over the previous 12 years since the subject was last addressed. During this twelve year period of time the correctional officers and probation officers were represented in collective bargaining by the Police Benevolent Association, PBA. The PBA contract with the State (3) called for the Department to give an officer that worked a Holiday, a day off within 90 days of the Holiday. It further stipulated that the Department could require officers to reduce their Special Comp Leave balance to 240 hours if “agency needs” dictated. For 12 years the DOC allowed leave balances to accumulate because Staff levels at the institutions were not sufficient to give the officers the time off.
Then in the Spring of 2011 the State’s Chief Financial Officer, Jeff Atwater, insisted that this problem be addressed and that provisions of the collective bargaining agreement be enforced and followed. Secretary of the Department of Corrections, Edwin Buss, notified the PBA of this intent by letter on May 20, 2011 (3). Secretary Buss then instructed Chief of Personnel, Gail Thompson, to issue PIM 11-50-05 on July 5, 2011 (4) This directive compelled the use of Special Comp Leave rather than Annual Leave or regular vacation time until such time as the employee reached the 240 hour level. The PBA made no objection other that a request to “negotiate the impact to our members” (5).
On December 5, 2011 the Teamsters Union Local 2011 became certified as the collective bargaining agent for all correctional and probation officers in the State of Florida. This was after the officers voted to replace the PBA with the Teamsters in October of 2011. The Teamsters Union was then designated to service the existing PBA contract until it expired on July 30, 2012.
During January, February and March 2012 the Teamsters bargaining committee and the State’s representatives met and negotiated the new proposed contract which would take effect on July 1, 2012 and be in effect for one year. The sides could not come to agreement on seven articles of the contract and went to “Impasse” . The article number 23 regarding wages, work hours, and special compensation was one of these “Impasse” articles.
According to State Law all “Impasse” articles are to be decided by the State Legislature per Fl Statutes Title XXXI Labor Section 447.01. (6) The “Impasse” articles went to a budget committee and the State’s position was accepted without modification or comment. All articles were to be made part of the new contract whether it was ratified by the membership or voted down. The State’s proposal eliminated the 240 limit and forced the use of all accumulated special comp time at the expense of using regular annual leave or vacation time. The State’s proposal also eliminated payment for working Holidays and put a use it or lose it rule with a deadline two times per year. See PIM 12-50-04 issued 7/16/12 under the signature of Elizabeth Wilkerson, Chief of Personnel. (7)
Many correctional and probation officers have accumulated hundreds of hours of Special Compensatory Leave. They faithfully worked Holidays for a number of years trusting that their employer, The State of Florida, would someday justly compensate them for their dedicated service and sacrifice.
Apparently , the State can no longer afford to pay its employees for working Holidays and it finds it necessary to take back what it owes its employees for the Holidays they have worked in the past.
At the same time The State of Florida can afford to pay its lawyers to find a clever way to steal back what it owes its employees. This insidious trick is intended to make it look like the Teamsters Union has done this to its members. Nothing could be further from the truth.
These are the events and facts of this charade which was authorized by Governor Rick Scott and orchestrated by his chief negotiator, attorney Michael Mattlemore.
Supporting Documentation
1. Operational Audit December 2010
2. Follow Up to Audit Report To Edwin Buss
3. Old PBA Contract, prior to July 1, 2012 Article 23 Section 6, Special Compensation
4. PIM 11-50-05 Compelled Use of Special Compensatory Leave, July 7, 2011, Gail Thompson
5. DOC letter to PBA May 20, 2011 notifying of compelling to use Special Comp Leave
6. FL Statutes TitleXXXI Labor Section 447.01
7. PIM 12-50-04 Compelled Use of Special Compensatory Leave, July 16, 2012, Elizabeth Wilkerson
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Post by lawton on Jul 19, 2012 19:49:47 GMT -5
In December 2010 an operational audit (1)(2) conducted by the Auditor General found that many State Agencies were failing to control a burgeoning liability to the State’s budget. This debt came in the form of “Special Compensatory Leave Time”. Many previous Audits over the years have previously addressed this same issue. The Department of Corrections was found to have the greatest accumulation of this liability amounting to well over 20 million dollars owed to its 18000 employees. According to State Law all “Impasse” articles are to be decided by the State Legislature per Fl Statutes Title XXXI Labor Section 447.01. (6) The “Impasse” articles went to a budget committee and the State’s position was accepted without modification or comment. All articles were to be made part of the new contract whether it was ratified by the membership or voted down. The State’s proposal eliminated the 240 limit and forced the use of all accumulated special comp time at the expense of using regular annual leave or vacation time. The State’s proposal also eliminated payment for working Holidays and put a use it or lose it rule with a deadline two times per year. See PIM 12-50-04 issued 7/16/12 under the signature of Elizabeth Wilkerson, Chief of Personnel. (7) I like how that memo from the state forcing this on us addressed us and DCF for Christ's sake in the same document telling us how it is. Thanks a lot to all you people that got these clowns as our reps. That was real smart get a truck driver union to rep state officers in a right to work state. The Teamsters will probably have a mutiny soon if it stays this way where we are the only state officers not allowed to keep the 240 to cash out at retirement. What a frickin joke they don't have a clue how things work in Tally. I guess they can keep telling us we can do it while the state plays them for fools. The Teamsters are a gift to the state it appears. I know I am the problem and I am why we have been played like fools ever since this truck driver union took over.
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Post by lawton on Jul 19, 2012 19:53:46 GMT -5
A Steward can only represent you to Step 1. Before it gets to predetermination it is bumped up to a Business Agent and legal. Have you even had to file a grievance yet, or are you going solely on guessing how it'll end up? Basically the only thing a Steward is there to do is take your initial complaint, try to verbally get the Captain/Chief/Warden to see reason and do the right thing, and if that doesn't solve the problem, to file the actual grievance which gets the BA involved. A Steward is mainly a point of contact for staff, and a way for the Business Agent to not be overwhelmed with easily solved complaints. When the PBA had it, they had reps at the institution too (allegedly) that did the same thing....just everybody called their equivalent of a business agent first, and usually got the runaround. If you have a personal grudge against your shifts Steward, get over it or call one of the other ones. The guys that did things for the PBA were just Officers, Sergeants, Lieutenants and Captains that got training too. Sometimes it seems like you guys think you should be able to sit back and be disgruntled while some well trained, high paid, suit wearing fairy comes in and sprinkles magical "its all better" dust over everything on your behalf. The real world doesn't work that way. I'm sorry to say this, but you are probably wasting your breath and words on these guys. We try to explain it to them, but they just want to sit back, and reap the benefits of those of us who actually give a damned, and complain when it doesn't go their way. Sorry to paint it that blunt, but that's how I see it. The sooner this union is out the better. I can't believe how naive people were to vote them in.
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Post by Mr Hat on Jul 20, 2012 8:55:09 GMT -5
Drauka, I'm sorry to say that we are doing nothing but wasting words on this polluted and stubborn mind. Unfortunately all he will do is argue and complain and gripe, and not DO ANYTHING to make a change, I've visited a few State Representatives in our area with this information and not ONE of them claimed to have known about this. When I told them it is THEM that will be held responsible for approving the appropriations bill with this earmarked in there, two of them outright started making phone calls and decided to denounce it as an assault on the state's workforce. But these people don't want to blame the root cause of the issue, they just want to blame a union that they are not happy with, and never will be. We can continue to answer his complaints and gripes, but it's nothing more than wasted words with him.
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Post by lawton on Jul 21, 2012 9:47:44 GMT -5
Nonsense ? The Teamsters are virtually useless. Its real nonsense we are the only officers in the state right now being told we must use the 240 first. Its real nonsense the state looks at us like such a joke now having the Teamsters that they address us along with DCFin the same memo. How stupid people were electing this union and now we are paying the price. Lets see all work release basically being privatized by Scott with many prisons coming next ? DCF for crying out loud being lumped in our memo. What a frickin joke....
Let me guess " you can do it (since we are so naive we let the state play us)"
Anyone who doubts us are in bed with Scott and them. Frickin useless imo the Teamsters are.
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Post by metsfan on Jul 21, 2012 14:20:13 GMT -5
Nonsense ? The Teamsters are virtually useless. Its real nonsense we are the only officers in the state right now being told we must use the 240 first. Its real nonsense the state looks at us like such a joke now having the Teamsters that they address us along with DCFin the same memo. How stupid people were electing this union and now we are paying the price. Lets see all work release basically being privatized by Scott with many prisons coming next ? DCF for crying out loud being lumped in our memo. What a frickin joke.... Let me guess " you can do it (since we are so naive we let the state play us)" Anyone who doubts us are in bed with Scott and them. Frickin useless imo the Teamsters are. I like officers like you, complain about the issue and dont take any time off. Thats more time for me to take off! Granted it sucks that we have to use special comp, but if you thought this could not happen, i have a bridge in new york i would like to show you. Grow up and take action!
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Post by lawton on Jul 21, 2012 14:52:28 GMT -5
Nonsense ? The Teamsters are virtually useless. Its real nonsense we are the only officers in the state right now being told we must use the 240 first. Its real nonsense the state looks at us like such a joke now having the Teamsters that they address us along with DCFin the same memo. How stupid people were electing this union and now we are paying the price. Lets see all work release basically being privatized by Scott with many prisons coming next ? DCF for crying out loud being lumped in our memo. What a frickin joke.... Let me guess " you can do it (since we are so naive we let the state play us)" Anyone who doubts us are in bed with Scott and them. Frickin useless imo the Teamsters are. I like officers like you, complain about the issue and dont take any time off. Thats more time for me to take off! Granted it sucks that we have to use special comp, but if you thought this could not happen, i have a bridge in new york i would like to show you. Grow up and take action! I am taking action. I am working to get a competent union that will at least be on proper guard for the state trying to pull even more mess on us. It just sucks we have to be screwed over worse than other state agencies for our officers to realize the huge mistake they have made.
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Post by LockInaSock on Jul 23, 2012 14:55:44 GMT -5
I am taking action. I am working to get a competent union that will at least be on proper guard for the state trying to pull even more mess on us. It just sucks we have to be screwed over worse than other state agencies Wow lawton, you mean you would do that for us??? You are the MAN, lawton!!!
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Post by lawton on Jul 23, 2012 20:34:03 GMT -5
I am taking action. I am working to get a competent union that will at least be on proper guard for the state trying to pull even more mess on us. It just sucks we have to be screwed over worse than other state agencies Wow lawton, you mean you would do that for us??? You are the MAN, lawton!!! Thanks for the Teamsters
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